Lucid Dreaming and OBE Discussion Board

I've been identifying my dream signs lately.  I have used the direct method the last time I entered the phase and when I fell into an ordinary dream, I was able to regain lucidity shortly afterwards.  I think I'll start giving the dream consciousness method more attention again.  I love the shock of realising that I'm dreaming while it's happening...

Yeah, it's pretty cool. I'd love to be able to enter using the direct and indirect techs but it seems they may not be an option at this time. Dream consciousness will do for now though 

The direct method can be a pickle.  I don't usually use it because I fail most of the times.  You can try it with an optimistic approach but perhaps the two of us are better off mastering dream consciousness and the indirect methods for now.

Taken my foot off the gas a bit for the last couple of days.

I've been experimenting intensively since September and since about October I've been working on dreamsigns and ways to use them to make me lucid. I've got a rough idea in my head of what I think may be the "ultimate" way to become conscious in dreams (DILD):

1) Write fictional lucid dreams.

2) Ensure those fictional dreams are packed full of dreamsigns.

When I say "packed full" I am talking about quantity and quality - there will be many dreamsigns and individual dreamsigns will get a lot of "screen time" in the fictional dreams.

3) When writing a fictional dream, visualise the dreamsigns doing something that will make you lucid when you are having a non-lucid dream.

(What that something is I am working on at the moment.)

4) Act out the fictional dreams when you eventually become lucid. 

I got to thinking that maybe our rapid eye movements when dreaming may lead us to be easily distracted in dreams - as soon as we begin to focus on something, our eyes "dart" to another location and we become distracted. Also, I wondered if our muscles also "fire up" (technical term ) so that, in a situation where we may want to stay where we are, the firing up makes us walk elsewhere, thus distraction and our chances of realising we're dreaming decrease. (I think I may have posted about this somewhere on the forum before).

So I was brainstorming for an environment where we are forced to both stay in one location for an extended duration, and forced to stare ahead (staring will, of course, lead to "decay" of the image and can be used as a reality check). A dream came up with an unexpected solution: I was a space shuttle astronaut in a dream, sitting in my seat, listening to the countdown, and looking straight ahead. When the countdown reached zero, the shuttle took off and I thought to myself, "Dreams are really rubbish at recreating the G force you experience at take off". So sort of lucid. Interesting?

Asking, "Am I dreaming?" becomes a dreamsign for some, but not others?

(Regarding becoming conscious while dreaming or DILD)

Maybe some people are better at lucid dreaming because asking "Am I dreaming?" becomes a dreamsign itself. And maybe for others it's very difficult to make "Am I dreaming?" become a dreamsign? This could apply to reality checks too - perhaps something like checking your hands becomes a dreamsign for some, but not for others. And, in each individual, perhaps certain types of reality check are more likely to become dreamsigns? So nose pinching may never become a dreamsign for you, but jumping into the air (flight check) would.

Looking at the finer details, maybe there are many alternatives to "Am I dreaming?" that, ultimately, achieve the same effect: A lucid dream. Maybe:

Am I dead?

Am I really asleep right now?

Will I wake up soon?

Can I fly right now?

I'm a lucid dreamer!

What would Stephen LaBerge do right now?

Is this real or not?

And, as before, for each individual, some of these are more likely to become dreamsigns than others.

Lovely dream last night about having to go to the toilet in a public place. Might have to admit that it's actually a dreamsign.

TheOnerous wrote:I got to thinking that maybe our rapid eye movements when dreaming may lead us to be easily distracted in dreams - as soon as we begin to focus on something, our eyes "dart" to another location and we become distracted. Also, I wondered if our muscles also "fire up" (technical term ) so that, in a situation where we may want to stay where we are, the firing up makes us walk elsewhere, thus distraction and our chances of realising we're dreaming decrease. (I think I may have posted about this somewhere on the forum before).

So I was brainstorming for an environment where we are forced to both stay in one location for an extended duration, and forced to stare ahead (staring will, of course, lead to "decay" of the image and can be used as a reality check). A dream came up with an unexpected solution: I was a space shuttle astronaut in a dream, sitting in my seat, listening to the countdown, and looking straight ahead. When the countdown reached zero, the shuttle took off and I thought to myself, "Dreams are really rubbish at recreating the G force you experience at take off". So sort of lucid. Interesting?

Interesting theory. It appears that neurons in the pontine tegmentum area of the brain stem are responsible for the rapid eye movements. REM may help to kickstart and exercise certain neural mechanisms and this in turn may aid the processing of information. It is also true that many of the movements correspond to the gaze of the dreamer. It could also help to maintain the sleep stage itself and hence the reason why, if the phase state develops, we should try not to focus on a single object for too long lest a foul occurs.

Interesting theory. It appears that neurons in the pontine tegmentum area of the brain stem are responsible for the rapid eye movements. REM may help to kickstart and exercise certain neural mechanisms and this in turn may aid the processing of information. It is also true that many of the movements correspond to the gaze of the dreamer. It could also help to maintain the sleep stage itself and hence the reason why, if the phase state develops, we should try not to focus on a single object for too long lest a foul occurs.

A percentage of the fouls will actually be false awakenings. Is that correct?

Nice LD last night; first for a while. My daughter kept me up for about an hour so I knew my chances of success were increased. I was in a lift and a homeless man was asking for money. Another man gave him some money and then I had some kind of seizure - a dramatic change in consciousness. I shouted, "Something is badly wrong with me!" to the men then the penny dropped I was dreaming. I figured that the change in consciousness was a sign I was close to waking so I jumped up and down and clapped energetically. I stabilised enough to stay in the dream but I continued to hop along while clapping because I felt I was close to waking. I paused then felt myself kind of morphing from my dream body to my real body in bed. I should've attempted separation at this point but didn't. I'll take a break for a couple of days now before coming back and planning my way ahead.

Nice one. I hope they continue for you.

TheOnerous wrote:

Interesting theory. It appears that neurons in the pontine tegmentum area of the brain stem are responsible for the rapid eye movements. REM may help to kickstart and exercise certain neural mechanisms and this in turn may aid the processing of information. It is also true that many of the movements correspond to the gaze of the dreamer. It could also help to maintain the sleep stage itself and hence the reason why, if the phase state develops, we should try not to focus on a single object for too long lest a foul occurs.

A percentage of the fouls will actually be false awakenings. Is that correct?

Correct. If we don't wake up then the scenery will turn into what is expected. I guess our desire to hold on to the state can sometimes restore it.

NOVA wrote:Nice one. I hope they continue for you.

Thanks NOVA.

Excellent night in the dreamworld.

In the dream, my wife showed me some fighter jets doing aerobatics outside the window. I figured quite quickly that this was probably a dream. I did a nose pinch (inconclusive) then backed it up with a hand check; my middle finger was bent. I took to the sky and had a fly through the apple orchard where my dad had flown before (huh? weird false memory). After that I was kind of in and out of lucidity but it's a great step forward.

Thought experiments and ideas about realising you are dreaming

(All this pertains to realising you are dreaming once in a dream.)

1) Not myself

I think I am not myself in my dreams. Huge chunks of my memories are missing. Parts of my brain are asleep, therefore I am far from the person I am in waking life. I am not myself.

2) Little of my real life enters my dreams

From my own experience, very little of my real life enters my dreams at night. For example, I spend a lot of time at home, but dreams involving my home are very rare indeed for me. I took up cycling, but cycling rarely featured in my dreams when I took it up, and it rarely does today.

3) Awareness techniques

Some people pursue awareness techniques during the day - they are aware of the input from the senses, they are mindful. Some even manage to stay aware in this way all day. (Some consider it to be a form of all day meditation.) Many find this pursuit increases the number of lucid dreams they have - some even report they become lucid almost every night. Would pursuing such an awareness approach be a waste of time for me? Because of point 2 (little of my real life enters my dreams) the "all day awareness" approach may be a behaviour that is unlikely to carry over into my dreams? Is it better to forget waking life and focus on the "me" that is in my dreams, and the content of my dreams?

4) Hidden dreamsigns

My friend Dan (who I haven't seen for years, incidentally) is a strong dreamsign. Is there more to it than that? More to my "Dan is a dreamsign" assumption? A hidden dreamsign? A second tier of the dreamsign? I think so. When I dream of Dan, we are often planning a visit to the pub. So, "Planning a visit to the pub with Dan" is a valid dreamsign in addition to just "Dan" on his own. But maybe it would be better to think of the "planning a visit to the pub" as being a better dreamsign than just "Dan" because Dan is quite "inert" as a component of a dream (it's just a tangible object, essentially), while the planning involves more dynamic mental processes - the sort of processes that, if I can increase, may make me more likely to become lucid within a dream? Such as: Choosing, Making goals, Thinking, Vocal thinking (self talk), Focusing, Feeling emotions.

Furthermore, when I see Dan in a dream, I often look at the big hooped earring he wears. At this moment, for just a split-second, I am displaying lucid behaviour: I am choosing where I look. If this behaviour had continued into the dream and I had mindfully chosen where I looked - indefinitely - then surely this would be similar to lucidity itself? Maybe I would realise it's a dream? If not, I would have a good degree of control and probably good recall of the dream.

5) The hidden dreamsign of "My interaction with a dreamsign"

So, In addition to the main dreamsign and the components/characteristics of the dreamsign, there is also the hidden dreamsign of how I interact with the dreamsign. How I think, how I feel, where I look, what action I take, etc. The interaction occurs as regularly as the original dreamsign itself, and is just as a valid as the original dreamsign itself, and perhaps more important in the quest for lucidity.

6) The Dream Journal focus

So the idea is, when I remember a dream - or read one in my dream journal - I dig out the hidden dreamsigns and think about them in an active way, and give them much more attention than I give the other dream events. There is a saying: What you focus on expands. So, for example, if I have a dream memory of struggling to get home from London on a bus (a dreamsign for me), I can apply most of my focus on the considerations in my head on how I'll get home from London. When this behaviour occurs in a dream again, there may be a kind of "expansion" in my thoughts - I may think, deliberate, consider more than I did in the previous dream, and as a result I increase my chances of becoming lucid.

7) Everything I need is already present in my dreams?

Maybe everything I need to become a regular lucid dreamer is already in my dreams? It's just a case of recognising the hidden dreamsigns and focusing on them and thinking about them a lot?

How to think about them

The idea is to think dynamically about the hidden dreamsigns without doing any kind of "wishful thinking" kinds of visualisation: So instead of just visualising myself boarding a bus and saying, "The bus is a dreamsign! therefore I'm dreaming!", I focus (almost exclusively) on my deliberations in that moment - that actually occurred in the dream - and are a dream memory. I need to brainstorm on ways to do that.

Excellent night of dreams. Never quite got to lucidity, but some brilliant themes (a vacuum cleaner that's so strong it can suck up people?!) Lots of dreamsigns put in an appearance. Looking forward to tonight.

Interesting couple of dreams last night.

Had an (occasional dreamsign) dream where I signed up for the army and went into war. I have these quite often (not often enough to work with though). I never actually go to battle in these dreams; I'm always preparing and scared.

Earlier I dreamed Geri Halliwell had gone insane and was going on a rampage. That was pretty funny.

Got some experiments to try tonight. Let's see how that goes!

Previous night was fairly poor. Recall not to good and cloudy.

Last night was better. Lots of dreamsigns featuring.

Poor recall last night. Tried to grasp a dream memory on waking but never got it.

Recall poor again. However, I ran through my list of dreamsigns and some very vague memories came back.

Bit of a rare event last night - actually had a dream with dream-related content! Michael Raduga came to my home town to teach about the phase. Recall a bit blurry, but it was eventful and dreamsigns loyally put in an appearance.

Been going to bed quite early lately. Finding it more difficult to sleep at about the 5am mark, which of course usually leads to more vivid dreams with good recall.

Last night was interesting. I'd been toying with idea of finding alternatives to asking, "Am I dreaming?" I figured "Am I dead and in an afterlife?" might work. In last night's dream I was aware of the fact I was probably dead. I said to a DC, "But how can we be sure we're dead?" He said, "Pinch your nose!" I spent a few minutes pinching my nose, enjoying the weird sensation of being able to breathe. Wouldn't really say I was lucid in the way I am when I realise I'm dreaming (and I won't be adding it to my LD tally) but it was interesting.

Looking forward to tonight's attempts. Let's see what happens

Last night went well. Experimenting with new ways to induce dreams about dreamsigns. Will try again tonight.

Recall a bit ropey last night.

Been a tough time for my family this week. After bereavements I'm usually tormented by bad dreams, but thankfully I've been able to set the intent that my dreams will be happy and peaceful, and it's worked.

Your blog is quite rich. My condolences btw! One of my cousins in Angola just lost his teenage sister. I just told him online that he could see her again with as much realism as when she was alive using phase state induction techniques. I didn't beat about the bush, though, and told him flat out that it doesn't mean it will be an encounter with the real mccoy but that the brain has enough power to make it seem so. He told me he'll try this morning. The experience should be enough to relieve his grief upon awakening.

I'm back and refreshed My passion for experimenting with the phase/lucidity has returned and hit me like a rollercoaster!