Re: Countdown to the change of beliefs (12padams and Summerlander)

12padams · Post by **12padams** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:01 am

Edit: The "events and change in beliefs" I spoke of never occurred. For an explaination of what was actually going on check out this thread: http://obe4u.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5

For a long time I have been counting down the days. Personal proof is coming soon and two different counters will affect a few people.

As you know summerlander is the official skeptical on our forums. But actually, he models how we practically all should act on these forums.

Ok so here's what's going on:

[align=center]Mind------------------------------------------------------------------------Real[/align]

On that line summerlander is almost fully on the mind side while I am in the middle. My mentor tony is on the real side and really couldn't get any further right if he tried.

The bar represents how much you believe that a single part/parts of the phase are generated by the mind or are real. If you believe at all that the phase may contain any things that are not generated by your mind then you are not completely to the left of the line. If you 100% believe that the phase does contain some elements not generated by your mind then your fully on the right side. Remember that even if you are on the right side of the line it doesn't mean that you don't believe there are mind generated sections because we all know that there are.

Ok now to start the two countdown timers: (counters stopped)

2 days - The people listed below could fully move onto the right side of the bar from this date onwards. Not as soon as this timer gets to 0 days but the possibility of this happening with each passing day just starts. If the second timer gets to 0 without this happening then it may occur in september yet I wont activly follow this if nothing happens by April 31st.

People who's beliefs will move completely to the absolute right:
Summerlander
12padams
Chris_ld
Jeff
masterg174
APVirgin
About 30 others not from this forum

17 days I move to the absolute left side of the scale and become just like the current summerlander. Summerlander will keep his current position. This will not happen if the personal proof occurs before this timer gets to 0 days. If nothing happens by this point nothing will happen for a least a few months.

413 days If nothing happens by this date then nothing will ever happen!

It Is not just the phase being more than a mind creation that this proves. It will be proof of many more major things including well I can't really say, yet. You will all find out if this is true and all receive global proof next year if this really is real.

Please do not ask summerlander what the personal proof was if/when he receives his proof. I/the others do not give him permission to do this but he is allowed to say that he received proof. As for Chris_ld, Jeff and I... I don't know if we will even be fully contactable if this does occur.

Anyway good luck everyone, let's see how things go for summerlander and I once the first timer ends

APVirgin · Post by **APVirgin** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:34 pm

One question. Why is it that Summerlander and the others you listed are the only ones from this forum that will receive proof? Why am I and others not priveleged enough to receive this proof you discussed?

Just interested, as from a personal perspective I am probably a quarter in from the left on your scale. I once had what I believe to be a precognitive experience whilst listening to binaural beats but, have so far seen nothing in the phase to suggest it is anything other than a generation of the mind. However my experiences are very limited, so far!!

12padams · Post by **12padams** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:01 pm

One question. Why is it that Summerlander and the others you listed are the only ones from this forum that will receive proof? Why am I and others not priveleged enough to receive this proof you discussed?

The whole world will eventually... Just give it a year and 2 months maximum. Also about the people other than summerlander receiving proof. They have been chosen not by us but by well I just can't say. Last time I almost revealed some of the answers on another forum and I had to quickly cover it up by pretending everything i said was a joke/experiment. Never again will I risk exposing the truth. I was almost discovered

its exactly the reason why there are many things out there that obserb humans but never communicate. Humans seem to act hostile towards them so covering things up is the only solution.

Oh and summerlander... I really just was sooo upset about how he often denied proof constantly by calling it either a coincidence or a bias/hoax situation. Summerlander says he only believes things that can be demonstrated. Well, he will get one hell of a demonstration alright. I Wanted to be nice and do something Fun but a certain somebody doesnt think he should be rewarded for disbelief. That's all I can say about that because I wouldn't want to ruin the surprise

(nor am I allowed to)

At the same time I am someone who would like to pay you a little visit as well APVirgin to physically prove a few amazing things to you. Whether or not I would be allowed to do so is not really up to me. If I can though, I will (as long as you promise not to tell people what you see)

APVirgin · Post by **APVirgin** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:21 am

I've sent to a PM.

Luna · Post by **Luna** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:45 am

Ok so what is the point of all this? I am so confused.
What will I or anyone else that isn't in the little group of included people gain form this exactly?

12padams · Post by **12padams** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:39 am

Ok so what is the point of all this? I am so confused.

If I disappear/go missing along with the others (apart from Summerlander) you can be 100% certain that the phase is more than a mind creation. The existence of telekinesis will be proven along with spirits/entities, past lives, aliens and heaps more. Also if this happens 2013 will be the year of extreme change.

You need to know about this because its going to be a big turning point in my beliefs and everyone else on the list. I am doing this also to prove that if nothing happens Summerlander was right and the phase really is just in your mind. Overall this is an official way to document a huge change that is about to occur. Once those timers get to 0 I will no longer be contactable and my blog/journey will not continue if this occurs. In other words... It allows you to know how much longer I'll be here for.

What will I or anyone else that isn't in the little group of included people gain form this exactly?

You will know in advance why our beliefs have changed and be able to prepare for 2013

Post by **Summerlander** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:38 pm

Perhaps there is such a thing as global consciousness and at times we may even perceive the imagination or dreams of others. I've had seemingly telepathic phase experiences before when I visited friends. The hits appeared to occur more often than not. But I never carried out enough experiments to rule out coincidence or "wishful thinking" on the people involved when interpreting my "visits". Others like Michael Raduga have. I have also had a few misses with these phase visits.

Anyway, if I'm supposed to change my mind completely about the phase and if something magical should happen to me in the near future, I can't wait...

Although, I don't think the human mind can be simply categorised in that mind/real spectrum when it comes to beliefs. First, what is consciousness? How can something physical become conscious? Secondly... what do we mean by real because John Nash thought his hallucinations were pretty real.

I will agree with everyone on one thing and it is the only thing I can be sure about: the phase is intriguing...

Th3TruthizInThere · Post by **Th3TruthizInThere** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:16 pm

I Wanted to be nice and do something Fun but a certain somebody doesnt think he should be rewarded for disbelief. That's all I can say about that because I wouldn't want to ruin the surprise (nor am I allowed to)

I'm sorry, I have to say something here. The essence of this statement is the same thing that I am sick to death of having force-fed to me through the concept of faith. Why should anyone be rewarded for disbelief??? Let's flip this around- why should they be punished for disbelief?

The gist of what I get from this whole countdown you talk about is that someone who has chosen to remain invisible and just watch all this time is now deciding to step forward. Whether this is God, Jesus Christ, Aliens, or some other supreme being, I'm pretty pissed if I'm expected to magically comply with whatever mystical texts are supposed to witness of them without PROOF!

Furthermore, even if my existence here is the result of some creator's decision, if that creator is going to be cruel and indifferent, then they should never have given me my own consciousness, because they can go to hell if they think I'm going to follow them blindly just because I'm here as a result of their actions. I'd rather not exist than be an automoton on somebody's ant farm.

I think it is cruel, unfair, and unreasonable to have such a heavy price placed on accepting or rejecting an idea or belief when beings have no reason to put "faith" into it.

Anyway, I don't understand half of the conversations out here, but I am pretty passionate about this one. The differences that people are arguing about in their phase experience may result from each creating their own different reality, so they see every aspect of that reality that they have created- and are therefore their own higher power. I suppose it could also be that those who choose to believe that the phase experience is all a construct of our mind are not tormented by demons and put in danger because their disbelief puts them right where these entities want them.

It may be that if we restrict ourselves to a simple inner virtual reality, we never get to the expanded reality that surrounds the VR room we have been playing in, oblivious to larger scheme of things. Like I said, I don't know. That is the whole problem- we can speculate from dusk to dawn, but nobody knows a damn thing- and if they do, and they have proof, then they should re-examine their inborn allegiance to their species and get us the hell out of the dark .

On that cheery note- I want to express my appreciation for all of you out here exploring and helping others to experience the phase. Whether the fearful experiences, images, sounds, etc. are real or hallucination, your courage and persistence is an encouragement to this community. Your successes are an inspiration for me to keep trying, and your failures help us all to learn how to refine our efforts. For the time being, all I can think to do is live my life, explore the phase, and watch and wait for whatever occasions I may need to arise to. Carpe Phase-...um!

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:22 pm

As you know summerlander is the official skeptical on our forums. But actually, he models how we practically all should act on these forums.

i would not bothered that much. This 'summerlander' in my opinion has the right to express his view on the topic. You don't have necessarily to rely on the approval from all participants. Neither a politician can count on the votes from all in the village. Perhaps an opposition can be stimulating for you, it is for you to grow.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:48 pm

On that line summerlander is almost fully on the mind side while I am in the middle. My mentor tony is on the real side and really couldn't get any further right if he tried

Hey, i didn't know i had been granted such a noble position. What i wrote is the product of 34 years of experience on spirituality. i must have started in my teens. My motto has always been ='doubt all authorities, even the authority of your own experience'. The person i doubt most is myself. Alternatively i cannot deny the solid evidences concerning the issue, i mean, when i telekinetically bend a fork or any metal utensil i say to myself, was it really me? But this is putting down all we know from the physics, at least the physics we learn at school. Then, who on earth bend the utensil with me? A supreme force? The unknown? i cannot name It. Energy? So, i get tired of thinking and leave it aside. The fact is that 'i do not know'. i have principles and they do not let me lie to myself-the worst liar is the one who lies to oneself. I cannot deny what my eyes show me. So, i am led to 'believe'. As to the so called intellectual phenomena one may state that it could have been an illusion, a dream. But even in dreams how can one explain a dream dreamt by two or by a whole group. You start to tell the dream plot and someone else goes on having it proven 'an illusion shared by many?' Now, this skeptic, this highlander can say whatever he wants to, but he does not convince me from what i have experienced and has also been witnessed by others.

Post by **Summerlander** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:32 pm

Th3TruthizInThere wrote:
I Wanted to be nice and do something Fun but a certain somebody doesnt think he should be rewarded for disbelief. That's all I can say about that because I wouldn't want to ruin the surprise (nor am I allowed to)
I'm sorry, I have to say something here. The essence of this statement is the same thing that I am sick to death of having force-fed to me through the concept of faith. Why should anyone be rewarded for disbelief??? Let's flip this around- why should they be punished for disbelief?

The gist of what I get from this whole countdown you talk about is that someone who has chosen to remain invisible and just watch all this time is now deciding to step forward. Whether this is God, Jesus Christ, Aliens, or some other supreme being, I'm pretty pissed if I'm expected to magically comply with whatever mystical texts are supposed to witness of them without PROOF!

Furthermore, even if my existence here is the result of some creator's decision, if that creator is going to be cruel and indifferent, then they should never have given me my own consciousness, because they can go to hell if they think I'm going to follow them blindly just because I'm here as a result of their actions. I'd rather not exist than be an automoton on somebody's ant farm.

I think it is cruel, unfair, and unreasonable to have such a heavy price placed on accepting or rejecting an idea or belief when beings have no reason to put "faith" into it.

Anyway, I don't understand half of the conversations out here, but I am pretty passionate about this one. The differences that people are arguing about in their phase experience may result from each creating their own different reality, so they see every aspect of that reality that they have created- and are therefore their own higher power. I suppose it could also be that those who choose to believe that the phase experience is all a construct of our mind are not tormented by demons and put in danger because their disbelief puts them right where these entities want them.

It may be that if we restrict ourselves to a simple inner virtual reality, we never get to the expanded reality that surrounds the VR room we have been playing in, oblivious to larger scheme of things. Like I said, I don't know. That is the whole problem- we can speculate from dusk to dawn, but nobody knows a damn thing- and if they do, and they have proof, then they should re-examine their inborn allegiance to their species and get us the hell out of the dark .

On that cheery note- I want to express my appreciation for all of you out here exploring and helping others to experience the phase. Whether the fearful experiences, images, sounds, etc. are real or hallucination, your courage and persistence is an encouragement to this community. Your successes are an inspiration for me to keep trying, and your failures help us all to learn how to refine our efforts. For the time being, all I can think to do is live my life, explore the phase, and watch and wait for whatever occasions I may need to arise to. Carpe Phase-...um!

There is so much truth in this post that no words can express. You hit the nail on the head and forever scarred the plank! I love the "Carpe Phase" at the end. I don't know what the hell is going on. Perhaps we struggle to make sense of the phase because it may be more quantum physical in nature than anything else. So it can be whatever people want it to be. I also agree that people shouldn't be forced into believing anything. Perhaps the phase holds both personal and collective experience. The personal often seems more obvious... but then again, to some, it is the collective.

Tony wrote: On that line summerlander is almost fully on the mind side while I am in the middle. My mentor tony is on the real side and really couldn't get any further right if he tried

Hey, i didn't know i had been granted such a noble position. What i wrote is the product of 34 years of experience on spirituality. i must have started in my teens. My motto has always been ='doubt all authorities, even the authority of your own experience'. The person i doubt most is myself. Alternatively i cannot deny the solid evidences concerning the issue, i mean, when i telekinetically bend a fork or any metal utensil i say to myself, was it really me? But this is putting down all we know from the physics, at least the physics we learn at school. Then, who on earth bend the utensil with me? A supreme force? The unknown? i cannot name It. Energy? So, i get tired of thinking and leave it aside. The fact is that 'i do not know'. i have principles and they do not let me lie to myself-the worst liar is the one who lies to oneself. I cannot deny what my eyes show me. So, i am led to 'believe'. As to the so called intellectual phenomena one may state that it could have been an illusion, a dream. But even in dreams how can one explain a dream dreamt by two or by a whole group. You start to tell the dream plot and someone else goes on having it proven 'an illusion shared by many?' Now, this skeptic, this highlander can say whatever he wants to, but he does not convince me from what i have experienced and has also been witnessed by others.

You can bend spoons? Wanna make some money? Go see James Randi, get a mil and then donate here so my little friend Connor can have a better chance of survival. This way you get to save a life and prove to everyone that the paranormal is real. And you also get to laugh in my face. You kill two birds with one stone. Meanwhile, I'll enter the phase and try to remote heal him. I'm serious. Please don't laugh!

http://www.bmycharity.com/connorwhippappeal

By the way, thank you for calling me "highlander". You were referring to me, right?

There can be only one! Love the show!

12padams · Post by **12padams** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:26 pm

Tony wrote:
On that line summerlander is almost fully on the mind side while I am in the middle. My mentor tony is on the real side and really couldn't get any further right if he tried
Hey, i didn't know i had been granted such a noble position. What i wrote is the product of 34 years of experience on spirituality.

I am talking about a completely different tony... Not you. I understand you why you though I was talking about you since you were recently pmed by me about your beliefs so sorry about the confusion?

The gist of what I get from this whole countdown you talk about is that someone who has chosen to remain invisible and just watch all this time is now deciding to step forward. Whether this is God, Jesus Christ, Aliens, or some other supreme being, I'm pretty pissed if I'm expected to magically comply with whatever mystical texts are supposed to witness of them without PROOF!

You are partially right there but it's not a matter of suddenly choosing to be shown. It takes a lot of help and planning. And about following "the bible". I fully agree! Why follow something without proof that it actually is right/exists. That final over 400 days left is everyone's "proof" day. You can't deni what you see happen physically in front of your eyes.

Perhaps an opposition can be stimulating for you, it is for you to grow.

I wanted to prove this to summerlander because he is one of the biggest skeptics on these forums. If I can make him believe that should make you all gain a lot of confidence. He will be shown something that can be physically demonstrated in front of him. Remember that I am in the middle of the line myself so I have no opposition and could go either way. It's proof day for me too

That is the whole problem- we can speculate from dusk to dawn, but nobody knows a damn thing- and if they do, and they have proof, then they should re-examine their inborn allegiance to their species and get us the hell out of the dark

That's exactly the point of this countdown! To get us out of the dark ages and finally find out if the phase is a real nonphysical place that can be shared by people. The proof will be undeniable and extremely wide spread.

Anyway, if I'm supposed to change my mind completely about the phase and if something magical should happen to me in the near future, I can't wait...

Although, I don't think the human mind can be simply categorised in that mind/real spectrum when it comes to beliefs. First, what is consciousness? How can something physical become conscious? Secondly... what do we mean by real because John Nash thought his hallucinations were pretty real.

Your not gunna call this a magic trick are you? Well anyway glad your excited

I can't wait to see you there!

And about what is "real". I should have been more clear on the definition. An idea, concept, object or entity that's real in my opinion is something that has its own extistance/consciousness and can be experienced by multiple people. If something such as video footage, audio recordings, text or word of mouth gets shown to you there is no evidence that it's real unless you see and experience it yourself.

Last of all if anyone is feeling threatened in anyway by this post/topic I will stop talking and simply continue the countdown without posting comments. I say this to avoid what happened to me on another forum when I began discussing this yet got warned by a moderator saying they would contact my ISP. I had to suddenly turn the topic around by saying "just kidding, "did I do a good job with my fake scenario". So remember to tell me now if your feeling threatened in anyway and I will stop talking at your request

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:36 pm

I wanted to prove this to summerlander because he is one of the biggest skeptics on these forums. If I can make him believe that should make you all gain a lot of confidence. He will be shown something that can be physically demonstrated in front of him. Remember that I am in the middle of the line myself so I have no opposition and could go either way. It's proof day for me too
==gosh, but this makes no sense ol'buddy. Do you wish to create a new cult? Let him think whatever he wants to. Taking all our freaking talking aside he is also an investigator. When he loses his physical body definitively, obviously, he will find himself in a slumber land for skeptics. Neither a kiss from Randi will have the power to awake the sleeping beauty.

12padams · Post by **12padams** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:39 pm

i leave the gymnastics of words, punning on words, playing the brainy skeptics with you and your master Randi. You think you can simply enter the phase and also play the magician. Uh, i won't get to sleep this night on. If you are unfortunate enough to get access to me you will get a beating that you will never forget. i do not work alone and my guides are ready to defend me. it has to be so, it makes part of my tasks in the low astral spheres. Guardians are necessary, obviously. They are skillful warriors and will easily broke your wooden toy sword.

(edit: Tony deleted this post since it was apparently a joke

Wow what exactly did I say to make you so vicious? On proof day there will be physical proof... This is not a enter the phase and confirm stories situation. Also since when were you against me? Please explain this as I don't want to scare anyone here and wish to be as kind as possible.

Let him think whatever he wants to. Taking all our freaking talking aside he is also an investigator. When he loses his physical body definitively, obviously, he will find himself in a slumber land for skeptics. Neither a kiss from Randi will have the power to awake the sleeping beauty.

Yikes... That's a little harsh

Just incase your wondering tony (not you other tony) tells me that when people die their experience is what they believe it to be. If your a strong Christian and believe in heaven and hell then you will face judgement upon death and go to one of those places. If you believe you will see nothing then you will not exist after death. If you believe that the phase is the afterlife then that's what you will experience.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:00 pm

i had delected that before you posted, don't take it so bad, it was just a silly joke. But the last part referring to the slumber land taking away the freaking part of the sleeping beauty, i really meant to say so and i was serious. You know skeptics generally are as stubborn as fanatic religious men. While fanatics create a world of their own in the astral dimensions including worshipping of idols, skeptics do not either join themselves together so much mesmerized with their nihilist ideas ideas on the spiritual world. What will they do? They will only soundly sleep in huge chambers. Someone visiting those wards may wonder why so many people soundly asleep. Why? Well, they didn't believe in anything while they lived in the flesh. Now they will sleep and dream imagining that only their own dreams are reality. Since you deny in sharing your 'dreams' with other people you will be living out of our own dreams and fantasies. That's the way of the autists.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:19 pm

Also since when were you against me? Please explain this as I don't want to scare anyone here and wish to be as kind as possible.

Sorry if i sounded harsh or cruel to you. i am frank and sincere to you and me when i say that you need not search for acceptance on the part of others. It seems to me that you are feeling insecure about your own beliefs. For instance, correct me if i am wrong. You start reading a book by Stephen LaBerge and LaBerge psychological approach into lucid dreaming seduces you into believing dreams are nothing more than secretions of a brain in turmoil needing release. Or who knows you can take them as manifestations of the confusing traumatized unconscious. On the other hand if you read a book automatically written by Francisco Candido Xavier having as guide the spirit AndrÃ© LuÃs you would be more confused to notice that the book was written simoutaneously by the same spirit through two different mediums in two different towns and the mediums didn't talk to one another on the phone. i think you are in deep conflict with your beliefs.

12padams · Post by **12padams** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:40 am

i think you are in deep conflict with your beliefs.

More than you think! Boy its absolutely ridiculous... There are two sides of my right now
The whole eBook writing and youtube video making side of me acts as if this whole thing is crazy yet the me writing these posts is feeling guilty, scared and confused yet super excited at the same time.

That's why this post is so important to me. Finally I will know whats going on when these timers get to 0... No more fooling around once I know the truth

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:23 am

More than you think! Boy its absolutely ridiculous... There are two sides of my right now
The whole eBook writing and youtube video making side of me acts as if this whole thing is crazy yet the me writing these posts is feeling guilty, scared and confused yet super excited at the same time.

That's why this post is so important to me. Finally I will know whats going on when these timers get to 0... No more fooling around once I know the truth

Reply= Hey take it easy on it, man. You are overloading yourself. First thing, in my opinion you have already done enough. Mind you, you are still in your teens and have a book published. i think you are under a lot of pressure, a lot of stress. If i were in your place i would start thinking in living 'my own age', having fun like any other teen ager, without killing oneself, of course. i have two daughters at about your age. They are brainy as you. One of them is 20 and studies Medicine, the other is 19 and attends college. They take part on seminars and are very responsible,but they also make out and go out with their friends and live a normal life.

12padams · Post by **12padams** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:30 am

Hey take it easy on it, man. You are overloading yourself. First thing, in my opinion you have already done enough. Mind you, you are still in your teens and have a book publish. i think you are under a lot of pressure, a lot of stress. If i were in your place i would start thinking in living 'my own age', having fun like any other teen ager, without killing oneself, of course. i have two daughters at about your age. They are brainy as you. One of them is 20 and studies Medicine, the other is 19 and attends college. They take part on seminars and are very responsible,but they also make out and go out with their friends and live a normal life.

You must understand that I have a lot of physical problems which prevent me from living a normal life. I don't want to go into detail but I can't spend much time in the sun (skin problems), I can't spend long doing repedative actions (RSI), I can't stand up/sit up for long periods of time (back problems) and on top of that I am trapped at home looking after my sister for long periods of time.

Last of all I am asexual so I really don't have any interest in relationships. People my age are not my type and I just can barely stand being around them. They go out partying all the time while drinking alcohol and having drugs (all the things I avoid). Hopefully you now know why the phase is so important to me.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:19 am

People my age are not my type and I just can barely stand being around them. They go out partying all the time while drinking alcohol and having drugs (all the things I avoid). Hopefully you now know why the phase is so important to me.

reply-Uh... i see. i cannot let to recognize that. Yes, Hopefully.
i wanna talk to you some more. Now it is 8=18 a.m here by our time zone. i must be at about 4a.m there by yours.

12padams · Post by **12padams** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:21 pm

i wanna talk to you some more. Now it is 8=18 a.m here by our time zone. i must be at about 4a.m there by yours.

Either add me on msn or we can chat through pms... It's not very appropriate to talk here since its off topic and more personal. If its something everyone really needs to hear eventually we can announce it in another topic.

Post by **Summerlander** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:52 pm

I will agree with Tony there in that you have already done a lot and it is understandable that you want to know the truth about the phase. It may be a glimpse of the afterlife, who knows. It may also be completely governed by the subconscious mind. What I am glad is that this forum promotes the practical side of it. The phase is beneficial in so many ways.

By the way, I am not offended by this thread at all. If I have to find out about some truth, perhaps I will on my own. It just takes a lot of convincing for me. If Tony is right, however, and I find myself in a slumberland for sceptics, then I guess I'll never know.

Randi won't be able to kiss me because he will be sleeping right next to me.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:32 pm

So that we may talk online through msn- [email protected]'s something about the current year 2012 that you may as well know. People have been misinterpreting the mayan predictions. i won't post it here on cause i wish to avoid theorizing things and get myself to the point trying to adapt my obe terminology to yours.
There's no need to be ofended. Since everything is virtual, in other words, without reality, a virtual body cannot be hurt. By the way, i had been thinking about finding one's own truth and i was bound to post something that has never been mentioned before= 'be the light unto yourself'- Buddha. Quoting that way i will sooner become known and famous and who knows i will be working for those new agey radios coast to coast in the states leaving this d. school salary to the fishes in Palm Beach. $:-\$

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:17 am

i think it was you on a video clip on the phase i saw just yesterday. It was a projection demonstration just like the ones with Maria Forza and that guy. Padam i am somewhat layman on the subject, but relating to movies i have learned some basic things an actor should never do. It is a capital mistake='Never stare at the camera when you are being filmed'. That was exactly what you did. I do not know how deep is your level of self consciousness or sensitivity on these issues. By the way since you must not have chosen acting as a walk of life you are not expected to know one should never eye the camera.

12padams · Post by **12padams** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:19 pm

i think it was you on a video clip on the phase i saw just yesterday. It was a projection demonstration just like the ones with Maria Forza and that guy. Padam i am somewhat layman on the subject, but relating to movies i have learned some basic things an actor should never do. It is a capital mistake='Never stare at the camera when you are being filmed'. That was exactly what you did. I do not know how deep is your level of self consciousness or sensitivity on these issues. By the way since you must not have chosen acting as a walk of life you are not expected to know one should never eye the camera.

Did you read the description? That was a simple test and I wasn't even going to upload it. I decided to do so anyway to show my progress to the full video (the scary phase experience). I mentioned that I would be making proper videos however that I did look at the camera and would never do that again. Next time please try to read the description

Btw you haven't been in msn... Since I've added you but got no reply. Does your client tell you that I added you?

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:47 pm

Wow! that's what i thought, you are extremely sensitive to criticism and bound to misinterpret even the faintest attempts of breaking the ice. I am so sorry that i will never again take the initiative to get a closer more spontenous contact. Goodbye!!!

now i saw about msn, gonna take a look at it just now. Perhaps this 'goodbye' is not so definitely goodbye.

-i have just booked you up on my msn.

Post by **Summerlander** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:41 pm

I've had further phase experiences since with a good level of control. So far, experiential evidence still suggests 12padam's "absolute left" dominance.

Stephen LaBerge's oneirology and psychophysiological views still resonate with me. Moreover, I reinforce the validity of Michael Raduga's SOBT statement:

"First, why do lucid dreamers and out-of-body travellers use the very same techniques to achieve their states, but merely call the result by different names? Second, why are the fundamental properties of the out-of-body plane and lucid-dreaming world exactly the same? Third, if the world of dreaming can take on any external form with any properties, then how does one differentiate real exit of the soul from the body into the physical world - or a parallel astral one - from a simulated dreamscape? Many can offer theoretical explanations, but not one that can be applied or proven in practice.

People usually encounter extreme physiological difficulty in leaving behind the idea of there being a myriad of worlds that they can fall into. This is usually tightly interwoven with their life philosophy and worldview, which can be pulled at the seams by such questioning. However, even opponents of classifying phase experiences together can easily use the techniques to achieve them in a way compatible with their outlook. This again demonstrates the secondary role of theory and the overriding importance of practice"

page 175/76

Furthermore on why people should enter the phase:

Whatever the nature of the phase - a state of mind, or perhaps an external experience - this is the sole opportunity to: visit any part of the world or universe; see people who are out-of-reach in real life, including relatives, the deceased, celebrities, and various creatures; communicate with the enormous resources of the subconscious mind and obtain information from it; realize desires that are unattainable in real life; model artistic productions; influence physiology, and more. These are not dull experiences. They are eminently personal and real.

Have you read SOBT yet, Tunico?

12padams · Post by **12padams** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:39 pm

I've had further phase experiences since with a good level of control. So far, experiential evidence still suggests 12padam's "absolute left" dominance.

Wait your performing experiments on me?
Also left dominance as in brain/logical thinking or on my line meaning I believe more that the phase is all in my head?

Have you read SOBT yet, Tunico?

Who's tunico... If your referring to me the answer is yes and I do like that quote

Wow! that's what i thought, you are extremely sensitive to criticism and bound to misinterpret even the faintest attempts of breaking the ice.

Wait what? You pointed out something that I already pointed out in the description of my video and explained yet you suddenly act all angry at me? I don't get it please explain...

I am so sorry that i will never again take the initiative to get a closer more spontenous contact. Goodbye!!!

Do you have something against me.... That's the second time you have tried to ignore me/say goodbye permanently... But the other time was through a joke apparently. I really can't stand being enemies with anyone so please let's forget about these "things" (I don't even know what's happened) and just restart.... We are all great friends

EDIT: omg I think I just worked it out lol...

I mentioned that I would be making proper videos however that I did look at the camera and would never do that again.

When I said "would never do the again" I was referring to looking at the camera... You probably thought I was referring to you pointing out what I did wrong...
Wow, I understand now sorry if you took that the wrong way... Your free to comment on what I do wrong! Lol I forgive you

bluremi · Post by **bluremi** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:08 pm

This is a very interesting subject. Summerlander is correct when he says that we cannot deduce the reality of a phase experience because it is completely subjective. We have to rely on self-reporting, which, as any prison psychiatrist will tell you when an inmate is up for parole evaluation, is not a very reliable method.

One way to try to get a grip on the phenomenological qualities of the phase experience is to try to understand the basis of consciousness. Clearly we are experiencing things, but I think before we try to classify the experiences it's logical to understand how we are able to experience them. There has been a lot of hard neuroscience done in the last 5 years to specifically explore what happens in the brain during dreams, lucid dreams, and OBEs. With a combination of functional magnetic resonance imaging and direct electromagnetic stimulation of different clusters of the brain, we can see which parts of the brain generate OBE experiences and we have successfully "forced" OBEs to occur in healthy, fully awake people.

If you guys are truly curious, and are of the mindset that there is always something new to be learned, you would definitely be interested in what we are starting to understand about the Theory of Mind.

I wrote this post to recommend "The Ego Tunnel" by Metzinger. It's a book about the evolution and physical basis of consciousness, written for the layman, and it will make you think hard about the way you see yourself as a being with self-awareness and free will.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:47 pm

yes, tunico has already read SOBT. i only know we are multidimensional beings. i have too many solid evidences from my long experience to simply state that the phase is nothing but the product of one's imagination. i assure you that we do have a non-physical body made out of a subter energy that can be projected possessing a set of senses of perception similar and serving for the same purposes as those from the physical body-we have para-eyes, para-ears and para-everything,ett. These para-senses of perceptions are perfectly fit in perceiving the para-world counterpart of our world in the 4th, 5th,ett- dimensions. Even when the physical body and non-physical body are overlaid and stuck together, it (the ghost body) is not encased or so much attached to the physical body to the point of not functioning in its proper place getting telepathic info, and producing psychokinetic effects on metal, for example, causing apports and luminous phenomena, not speaking of psychic healing. How i wish we could settle the matter stating the act of projection as a methaphor or something like that. The existence of the non-physical body is not a mere methaphor unless we choose to consider everything as illusion. But an illusion shared by many is a human reality. So you may choose the vocabulary, but the existence of the phase is real, subjective, but real.

why do lucid dreamers and out-of-body travellers use the very same techniques to achieve their states, but merely call the result by different names?

First thing-what or who experiences these different states of perceptions? There must necessarily be a center of perception to justify the statement-'I saw, I tasted, I heard...' What is this 'I'? This "i" is what we call 'the ego', right.
Secondly- Who said lucid dreams and out of the body experiences are experienced by the ego into the same dimensions of consciousness? In lucid dreams the ego experiences its power of being a creator in a minor plane navigating in a world of its own, right? Out of body experiences intermingles with lucid dreaming but the scenario gets even more stable as 'the ego' enters in contact to the virtual world created by other egos, a group whose participants tacitly agreed to take as reality bulidings, pieces of art, means of transportation, ett. created by the human imagination. The similarity to our 3dworld is evident differing in levels of vibration, but remember that in those surroundings you will be taking on a subtler body as the others-the realism is the same. It is a valid reality as this one.

'why are the fundamental properties of the out-of-body plane and lucid-dreaming world exactly the same?'
i tried to answer to that-the fluidic nature of the etheric matter in those dimensions are more docile to the act of human creative imagination. When a creation is shared by many minds it tends to seem more solid and stable less fluidic and changeable.