Lucid Dreaming and OBE Discussion Board

I was thinking about if there could be any alternatives to separation. Separation is imagined movements and there must be many variations on how to move, but how about an out-and-out alternative to that?

Also, I was wondering if there could be such a thing as "phantom eye opening", like phantom wiggling but obviously you'd imagine opening your eyes. The idea I had was that you'd imagine someone gently touching your eyelids and opening. Two thought experiments:

1: As a precursor to separation

You could attempt to do the "phatom eye opening" on waking. If you perceive anything visual or perceive your eyes opening in any way - even to the slightest degree-  then you know you are dreaming and it may be (?) safe to separate the normal way - as in real life - you just get up (no imagined movement).

2: As an alternative to phantom wiggling of a limb.

Kind of self explanatory.

I was thinking about if there could be any alternatives to separation. Separation is imagined movements and there must be many variations on how to move, but how about an out-and-out alternative to that?

No.  You got it wrong there, buddy.  Separation is usually about really moving, not imagining it.  Unless, of course, you are trying the rotation technique (rotating on an axis) and other alike which begin with imagination until the imagined movement takes a life of its own.  Imagined movement has its own category but separation techniques are not restricted to that.

Also, I was wondering if there could be such a thing as "phantom eye opening", like phantom wiggling but obviously you'd imagine opening your eyes. The idea I had was that you'd imagine someone gently touching your eyelids and opening.

SOBT covers a separation technique where you bulge the eyes.  This entails doing the following upon an awakening: "...bulge out or widen the eyes without opening them.  Frontal movement toward separation may result." - p203

Below that you get an even better one: Imagine Yourself Already Separated.

Hmm, might have used the wrong words there or maybe I've approached separation incorrectly. When I say imagined I mean "feel the sensation" of movement, not kind of visualise movement. (I hear the words "feel the sensation" in a Russian accent now, ha ha  )

phantom eye opening
exist but is another ilusion caused by cause and effect sugestion

You could attempt to do the "phatom eye opening" on waking. If you perceive anything visual or perceive your eyes opening in any way - even to the slightest degree- then you know you are dreaming and it may be (?) safe to separate the normal way - as in real life - you just get up (no imagined movement).
*first part about dreaming OK but use sleep mask becouse mind very often create ilusion and aslo eyes sometimes open themselfs slightly
* second part no if you have nonpyhiscal sight dount mean you ready for separation but if you have it strong enought it work but you must visualize hands

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not true separation is bouth but depend on with phase of embodiment you are almoust allwayes start vith visualization but can by automaticly generated.One example is embodiment of visualized copy floating below cealing.Also is possible extrem case where you have msultiple visualized and embodied parts.


by zhey way separation is wrong term there is nothing to separe is more lige creation or changing body image .

"by zhey way separation is wrong term there is nothing to separe is more lige creation or changing body image ."

We know there is no real separation buddy. But we use the term insofar as the illusion goes and to keep things simple. Like the acronym OBE. We know that there is no out-of-body but the experience of this, as an illusion, is real.

Have you read The Phase guidebook? It really is the most pragmatic stance, in terms of methodology, that you will find. In terms of perception, as far as removing oneself from the perceived body stencil goes, the term "separation" is quite applicable (regardless of the all-in-the-head notion).