Re: What am I doing wrong?

Anthony Pucci · Post by **Anthony Pucci** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:41 pm

Hello everyone. I find myself coming here out of frustration after about 3 weeks of unsuccesful attempts, looking for a bit of advice. I'll try to describe my issues and sensations as well as I can.

I was sent an e-book by a friend. I assume it's the same one that's on the front page since the covers look identical and it linked there, and almost immediately began trying to get this to work. (The thought of separating in 2 days as opposed to 2 months was rather enticing, you have to admit!) I read up to chapter 2, resolving to continue after my first successful attempt. Despite this, I'm into week 3 with no real success to speak of. I understand how I'm supposed to be practicing the techniques, and I've had some sensations. For instance, when I try the phantom wiggling method and trying to rotate my hand around at the wrist, I can feel what I suppose I can call a "second hand" moving while I'm still partially aware of my physical one.

The problems come in when I actually try to put them into practice. I have no real time constraints (aside from a very rude neighbor that plays loud music at 5 in the morning) to speak of, so I practice every night. I set my alarm for 6 hours of sleep, mill around for a bit, then go to bed with the intent of entering the phase in my mind. That's not difficult. It seems that any time I try to use these techniques, I wake myself up and often can't return to sleep, regardless of how passive or aggresive I am. (I have been known to wake up at 3 in the morning and be incapable of returning to sleep. It's very frustrating for many reasons.) I first try to imagine myself getting up and I feel a sort of pulling sensation. When what I believe is 5 seconds have passed, I try to use indirect techniques, usually listening in, wiggling, observing images, and occasionally straining brain/body, whatever comes to mind.

It's usually at this point one of three things will happen: I wake myself up and have difficulty returning to sleep, or my body begins to have uncontrollable muscle movements. I tend to twitch around my elbows or knees and it only happens when I'm trying to separate. This often leads to becoming fully lucid and I wake up anyway. If one of those doesn't happen, my eyelids begin to try to reflex open, convulsing and eventually opening partially.

Now to my sleeping environment. I usually sleep with low amounts of light on (out of habit, I feel I sleep better with a bit of light) and a quiet fan on low for background noise. (I find silence VERY unnerving) There is nobody else in the room, no pets, nothing that really moves per se. I tried turning the lights off after a while last night during later attempts, but I was still a tad sleep deprived from the night before, due to becoming completely awake at 3, and couldn't keep the thought of working on entering the phase in my mind.

So what am I doing wrong? Certainly after 3 weeks, SOMETHING would happen. Could medication somehow interfere with getting my mind in the proper state? I could use some help here, because I'd really like to experience this.

LawPaw · Post by **LawPaw** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:15 am

I'd read or listen to the whole book before continuing. It's all important.

I had some problems at first because I was too excited, so when I would wake up my mind would be too active even though I wouldn't move.

Then it was difficult because after several failed attempts I wouldn't expect to enter the phase.

Expecting it to work is absolutely vital, so it's important to not get discouraged. If you find that you are discouraged take some time off with a resolve that it will work when you return to it after a few weeks.

wiii · Post by **wiii** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:20 am

The problem with excitement must be solved first,i entered in the phase a few times but the thing happened exactly when a normal dream was over...
The problem i have now is that i stay relax..trying to forced fall asleep,and when i think i sank into sleep..i get overexcited by the sensation of sanking ..so i then become awake again..i wait for a few minutes standing still ant the thing hapens again...but i cannot stai there aware.as soon as i enter i pop out and i think this is by getting overexcited !
now for about three days i do not try to enter the phase entirely i just practice to not get anymore overwhelmed by that sensation..and i am getting results!
Few more nigts and i will get used to it! It is all about knowing where u doing wrong,and the best thing to find out is to read all the book!!There u will find answers and ways how to do it better! Practice and patience are very important!Never give up friends..it's in all of us..we all can do it!
willy!!

Anthony Pucci · Post by **Anthony Pucci** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:17 pm

Well, I tried again, and I figured out that much of the problem stems from too much effort. I'm trying too hard and waking myself up. So I tried easing up on the effort, and my mind began to wander. Any tips on how to avoid such mistakes?

wiii · Post by **wiii** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:12 am

My opinion is to take it easy 2,3 days..without any attempts,but just think intensively to enter the phase before going to sleep,relax 2 or 3 days!
Then when u start again to attempt entering the phase u will have a strong desire to do that!Happened to me once...after some days of not practicing...i wnt to take a nap..and i wanted soo much to enter the phase..and it hapend just like that while i was asleep
!

''Hey everyone!
Yesterday as i was going to take a nap,i had a strong desire for entering in the phase(i must notify that i am a newbie)so as i was going to sleep i was thinking about Raduga's book,and the techniques!At first i tried some techniques but didn't worked..probably i was not just so deeply relaxed.the i said..i am going to fall asleep wake up without moving and start techniques..So i fell asleep.and i guess i had in mind all the time that want to enter in the phase..so suddenly...i was kinda confuse..i did not knew exact if i was asleep or not...as i was staying with my eyes closed..about 20 minits had pass from when i got in the bed..so i kinda knew i was asleep but i was a little aware of that and i tried to exit from my body!Cool thing was..that i was laying on my stomach with my hands on the chest..i tried to get up..i felt like the upper body has comed out...so i simply got off the bed...in another world!I went to switch the light on..switcher didnt worked..i said it's clear i'm in the phase..but as i was going to the bathroom..switcher worked..light was on..that kinda confused me..then i tried to walk thru the walls..that worked too..i was now convinced that i was in the phase...i went to the balcony and just like that i jumped off from it..as i was aware that i can fly...so i landed nice and sloow in the parking lot:)
the..i wanted to translocate...closed my eyes..repeated in my head where i wanted do be..nothing happened ! I was starting to loose energy..i felt something dragging me back..so in order to stay in the phase i rotated trying to get dizzy...that worked:D
I was preety much still the with same energy like first time:D so then as i could see translocating wouldn't work i started to fly...exploring my hood..an suddenly i heard the door of my appartment..i was back in my body.in very smooth way..and i opened my eyes:) it was a cool experience:D but i guess...what could make the phase more real in my opinion.is more awareness ..i think if u have much awareness as much as possible that could a plyground of your own imagination:D ''
By that i understand what Raduga is saying in his book....the phase in entering in that state of mind..probably people say OBE cause the ones were more aware of what is happening..or lucid dream...is still a dream there are some things u can't controll..but with practice u gain awareness..is more real..,but u are still in the phase..
It makes sense what Raduga is saying..all theese are the phase..u can have lucid dream or OBE..or AP...all that happens in the phase cause i think the phase means...a state of mind where all your senses are there..but still a little awareness that u are no longer in real life! So practice=more awareness=better experience!
The more stronger desire u have to achieve the state of mind the more it helps you to achieve it easyer!Even Mr Raduga says it in oone of the topics:)
EVERY night or every time before going to sleep..read from this forum about the phase state...and just analyse it for 2,3 days...then u wil relax,and your next attempt will be more effective:)

Anthony Pucci · Post by **Anthony Pucci** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:32 pm

wiii wrote: My opinion is to take it easy 2,3 days..without any attempts,but just think intensively to enter the phase before going to sleep,relax 2 or 3 days!
Then when u start again to attempt entering the phase u will have a strong desire to do that!Happened to me once...after some days of not practicing...i wnt to take a nap..and i wanted soo much to enter the phase..and it hapend just like that while i was asleep
!

''Hey everyone!
Yesterday as i was going to take a nap,i had a strong desire for entering in the phase(i must notify that i am a newbie)so as i was going to sleep i was thinking about Raduga's book,and the techniques!At first i tried some techniques but didn't worked..probably i was not just so deeply relaxed.the i said..i am going to fall asleep wake up without moving and start techniques..So i fell asleep.and i guess i had in mind all the time that want to enter in the phase..so suddenly...i was kinda confuse..i did not knew exact if i was asleep or not...as i was staying with my eyes closed..about 20 minits had pass from when i got in the bed..so i kinda knew i was asleep but i was a little aware of that and i tried to exit from my body!Cool thing was..that i was laying on my stomach with my hands on the chest..i tried to get up..i felt like the upper body has comed out...so i simply got off the bed...in another world!I went to switch the light on..switcher didnt worked..i said it's clear i'm in the phase..but as i was going to the bathroom..switcher worked..light was on..that kinda confused me..then i tried to walk thru the walls..that worked too..i was now convinced that i was in the phase...i went to the balcony and just like that i jumped off from it..as i was aware that i can fly...so i landed nice and sloow in the parking lot:)
the..i wanted to translocate...closed my eyes..repeated in my head where i wanted do be..nothing happened ! I was starting to loose energy..i felt something dragging me back..so in order to stay in the phase i rotated trying to get dizzy...that worked:D
I was preety much still the with same energy like first time:D so then as i could see translocating wouldn't work i started to fly...exploring my hood..an suddenly i heard the door of my appartment..i was back in my body.in very smooth way..and i opened my eyes:) it was a cool experience:D but i guess...what could make the phase more real in my opinion.is more awareness ..i think if u have much awareness as much as possible that could a plyground of your own imagination:D ''
By that i understand what Raduga is saying in his book....the phase in entering in that state of mind..probably people say OBE cause the ones were more aware of what is happening..or lucid dream...is still a dream there are some things u can't controll..but with practice u gain awareness..is more real..,but u are still in the phase..
It makes sense what Raduga is saying..all theese are the phase..u can have lucid dream or OBE..or AP...all that happens in the phase cause i think the phase means...a state of mind where all your senses are there..but still a little awareness that u are no longer in real life! So practice=more awareness=better experience!
The more stronger desire u have to achieve the state of mind the more it helps you to achieve it easyer!Even Mr Raduga says it in oone of the topics:)
EVERY night or every time before going to sleep..read from this forum about the phase state...and just analyse it for 2,3 days...then u wil relax,and your next attempt will be more effective:)

So basically, I'm supposed to think about it as much as I can when I'm falling asleep? That seems simple enough. I'll give it a few day's time for my desire to build some more and report back.

wiii · Post by **wiii** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:52 pm

When u are falling asleep and before..read about the phase...think about it...but when you go to sleep just sleep and relax:)
Give it a try,then try practicing again:)

Post by **Michael Raduga** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:01 am

It is much better to think not only about the phase, but how you can use it, what interesting you can achieve by it. Think about a plan of actions!

Anthony Pucci · Post by **Anthony Pucci** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:37 am

Michael Raduga wrote: It is much better to think not only about the phase, but how you can use it, what interesting you can achieve by it. Think about a plan of actions!

Oh, I've got all sorts of plans, not lacking for that.

On a walk I took yesterday, a thought re-occured to me. I have this memory of what may have been an unintentional phase entry I had a number of years ago that I passed off as a lucid dream at the time. What makes me think this was simply a number of factors that seem to mirror what you said about the state of the world when in the phase. (Bright colors, different time of day, etc.) What I recall, I walked outside into my driveway. Everything seemed "high contrast," which is to say that all the colors were bright and vivid (no double rainbow jokes, please), and it was the middle of the day. The birch trees outside were all as they should be, but fully covered in leaves. (I don't remember what time of the year this took place in. It was a VERY long time ago.) I walk out, stop and think "I want to fly," and try flying by jumping into the air and taking off. I recall that I didn't fly, but I jumped much higher than I should've been capable of. I woke up soon afterwards and it was very early in the morning. Could this have been a phase trip that I didn't realize until now?

Also, I've figured out that I will not be so awake if I simply turn off my lights completely and not leave my bed. Now the trouble is motivation. I'm currently working on that, but I think a break might be in order.

Post by **Michael Raduga** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:15 am

Could this have been a phase trip that I didn't realize until now?

Only if you were fully conscious in this moment (with understanding that you are in the bed actually)

wiii · Post by **wiii** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:31 am

@confuzzled
My friend i prsonally get in the phase only by Lucid dreaming,for now!
But as Mr Raduga says if u fully aware that you are actually in the bed and you are dreaming if you cand figure this out during your dream then you are in the phase!
My las experience last night was kinda funny,during my LD phase i had a missunderstanding with a big man,and i was aware that it's a dream so i acceptet the fight haha,h began to throw with somekinda woodsticks into me..but those were just passing through me haha,the he came closer and as he tried to hit me in the face,insted of me eschivated i was constantly translocating behind him...and he turned around veri mad and cofused as i laugh my ass off haha!!It was very funny

So if it is a LD you are in the phase!That is i suppose why it's called ""LUCID""dreaming,cause you are aware that everything is happening in a dream;)

Anthony Pucci · Post by **Anthony Pucci** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:57 pm

I'm still having trouble with waking up too alert. What are some things I can do to keep that from being a problem? I do set an alarm, but I always wake up before it goes off, so I might do away with that.

Post by **Michael Raduga** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:34 pm

I'm still having trouble with waking up too alert

Do you try after such thoughts anyway? Usually it doesn't matter for result. Especially when you understand how to do it properly and know the forced falling asleep technique

Anthony Pucci · Post by **Anthony Pucci** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:56 pm

Michael Raduga wrote:
I'm still having trouble with waking up too alert
Do you try after such thoughts anyway? Usually it doesn't matter for result. Especially when you understand how to do it properly and know the forced falling asleep technique

Usually not. I find if I do, I wake myself up further, often leading to insomnia. As for the forced falling asleep technique, I don't totally understand it. Am I supposed to be imagining feeling really tired?

Post by **Michael Raduga** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:14 pm

How it is possible to get insomnia in 30-60 sec? You do something wrong or too long. Techniques should make you sleepy.

In 70% of all indirect attempts I feel myself too alert. It means nothing for result (now it is almost 100% but some years ago I could only dream about it).

Anthony Pucci · Post by **Anthony Pucci** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:59 am

Michael Raduga wrote: How it is possible to get insomnia in 30-60 sec? You do something wrong or too long. Techniques should make you sleepy.

In 70% of all indirect attempts I feel myself too alert. It means nothing for result (now it is almost 100% but some years ago I could only dream about it).

I have no clue, but it's been almost a month and a half now and I've still had little to no success. I'm getting remarkably frustrated, and I'm suffering from insomnia once again. To say I'm getting a little disillusioned is quite the understatement.

I've tried altering my sleeping environment, lights on, lights off, small background noise, no noise, nothing seems to make a difference there. It inevitably comes down to the same problem: I can get about two attempts before I have extreme difficulty returning to sleep, and it doesn't help when a very insensitive neighbor drives by every morning between 3 and 5 AM blasting his stereo, which gives me a "time limit" of sorts. Sure enough, that's what finally woke me up today.

Unless you've got any other ideas, I'm completely out. I'm on antidepressants. Could they be causing problems?

Post by **Michael Raduga** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:28 pm

1 - take a brake for 1-2 weeks
2 - perform your attempts as passively as possible
3 - do not do indirect attempts more than for 15-30 seconds
4 - of course, antidepressants cause problems, but not so big to be completely unsucessfull

Anthony Pucci · Post by **Anthony Pucci** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:46 pm

Okay, so I'm not sure, but I think I may have had some success last night. Either that or it was an ironic, very vivid dream. I finally got around to downloading that seminar you posted some time ago, (Large download sizes scare me.) and I tried some of the new things you talked about there.

Anyway, back to my possible success. So I used the rubbing hands technique until it became incredibly realistic and tried to roll out. I vaguely recall some initial resistance when I was rolling out, but I pushed through it, felt a sudden "jolt" of vibrations upon leaving and then that low electric feeling you spoke of. I distinctly recall looking back at my bed to check if I did indeed seperate, but I couldn't see my body. This confused me, and I remember forgetting to deepen, so it didn't last long. It SEEMS like I succeeded, but I want to double-check with the expert here. Does my experience match up with what phase entry is like?

Post by **Michael Raduga** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:51 pm

It was a phase, but you ruined it.
About body on the bed: in REAL practice it may be absent. If you wanna check the phase, try to breath through the pinched nose

But you did it! Memorise how it happened and just do it again.

LawPaw · Post by **LawPaw** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:59 pm

I've never seen my body in bed. Of course I usually translocate out of my body into my bedroom instead of rolling out, so that might have something to do with it.

Make sure you start palpitating your environment right away. I find that touching the environment helps deepen even more than touching my hands and face.

Tip: What works well for me is to grab something from my environment and walk around with it if I don't want stay close to walls or object (like if I'm flying). I'll pick something off the wall and just walk around feeling it.

Sometimes the object changes into something else, but that hasn't been a problem for me.

Post by **Michael Raduga** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:37 am

What works well for me is to grab something from my environment and walk around with it

It is already maintaining, but it really works. I know some practitioners who use this method too. You even can chew a gum or candy for the same purpose

Anthony Pucci · Post by **Anthony Pucci** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:15 am

Excellent. Well, now that I know what to do and how to do it, I feel a lot more confident. Thank you for all your assistance, and I'll be sure to post any findings I make "on the frontier" on these forums!