Lucid Dreaming and OBE Discussion Board

So after my first successful seperation, I have been unable to recreate the problem, and I associate the problem with entering full wakefulness in a matter of seconds. I don't move, I don't waste time, I just wake up and in mere moments, my mind starts wandering to various topics and I'm totally aware of my surroundings. I have no idea why this happens. Could I be going to bed too awake and thus leaving REM sleep unnaturally fast?

TL;DR, what can I do to be less alert the moment I wake up?

1 - take a break for one week
2 - more attention to the forced falling asleep technique
3 - more concentrations on techniques
4 - do not think and do not analyse anything upon awakening

If your mind is wandering you are not very much awake.  A wandering mind is actually a sign of losing consciousness and you may fall asleep (without even knowing it).

It is easy to assume that you are more awake than you are.  I often think I've moved or done other things when really I haven't. 

It is difficult to adequately focus when your mind is wandering and you are on the brink of losing consciousness, but this is the most critical time to have very firm intentions, faith, and desire that you will stay conscious as you enter the phase.

I know what you mean because I felt the same way for a long time, thinking that I was too awake when really I was very close to sleep and trying to lessen my "awakefullness" really just made me lose consciousness altogether or wander in and out of focus until I had insomnia.

LawPaw wrote: If your mind is wandering you are not very much awake.  A wandering mind is actually a sign of losing consciousness and you may fall asleep (without even knowing it).

It is easy to assume that you are more awake than you are.  I often think I've moved or done other things when really I haven't. 

It is difficult to adequately focus when your mind is wandering and you are on the brink of losing consciousness, but this is the most critical time to have very firm intentions, faith, and desire that you will stay conscious as you enter the phase.

I know what you mean because I felt the same way for a long time, thinking that I was too awake when really I was very close to sleep and trying to lessen my "awakefullness" really just made me lose consciousness altogether or wander in and out of focus until I had insomnia.

So what exactly did you do?

confuzzled wrote:

LawPaw wrote: If your mind is wandering you are not very much awake.  A wandering mind is actually a sign of losing consciousness and you may fall asleep (without even knowing it).

It is easy to assume that you are more awake than you are.  I often think I've moved or done other things when really I haven't. 

It is difficult to adequately focus when your mind is wandering and you are on the brink of losing consciousness, but this is the most critical time to have very firm intentions, faith, and desire that you will stay conscious as you enter the phase.

I know what you mean because I felt the same way for a long time, thinking that I was too awake when really I was very close to sleep and trying to lessen my "awakefullness" really just made me lose consciousness altogether or wander in and out of focus until I had insomnia.

So what exactly did you do?

Indirect techniques.  It is what they are all about.  Just train yourself to immediately try to separate when awaking and then going through the cycles if that doesn't work.

The hardest part is to keep doing the cycles.  It's easy to give up after the first attempts, but usually it takes a few cycles for me.

The closer your body gets to sleep, the easier it is for your mind to wander and lose focus (in my experience).  So the later in the cycles and closer to sleep, the harder to keep focus and intention on success.  But this is when it is most important.

It's a tough line because too much focus above a certain threshold of "sleepiness" can cause insomnia (for me). 

Follow the guidebook.  At least three cycles of a few seconds, but don't keep going so long that you get insomnia.

Well, now it seems I'm having a different problem. Instead of waking up really fast, I simply wake up and don't think about it. There's no intent for some reason and I never had this problem before. No matter how much or how little I think about it, how excited I get, or what I plan out for my excursion, I never wake up remembering to try and separate. I'm about to go on my 1-week hiatus to see if that'll help, but I find that doing such things tends to frustrate me just as much as continued failures. (A feeling of helplessness, I guess.) I might set my alarm for a slightly different time (I've been waking up before it goes off.), see if that'll help.

Aside from that, I'd like some brutal honesty. Why exactly have I had so much trouble with this? I've been at this for nearly four months now and I've only had one successful, albeit incredibly brief, phase entry. Certainly my medication can't make it THAT difficult, can it? Or is my brain wired in such a way that makes this remarkably difficult? (I have been diagnosed with something, though I will not elaborate.) I'm just trying to accomodate for all possible variables here.

You make mistakes - that's the reason. One week without results already means very serious mistakes. Usually in real conversation I can find up to 10 mistakes in such situations.

If you cannot remeber about the phase upon awakening it means:
- not enough intentions before falling asleep
- or  too deep sleep (not enough time for sleep)
- or too long sleep (between intention and awakening)

The first my suggestion is to take a brake for a week and relax.

Michael Raduga wrote: - or  too deep sleep (not enough time for sleep)

It's probably this, now that I think about it. I've been going to bed ~10-11 PM and I set my alarm for 2:30 AM. That's not 6 hours, so it could be I'm still tired.

...

The deferred method has a sense only if you have more than 8-9 hours for sleep (6+2,,,3). If you have no time for it, do not do it. Use simple awakenings.

I bet there is a lot of other mistakes

hi

I was thinking alot of the phase today and i dont know if this is the right place to post this but i will give it a go.

I have decided to wake up each night at 4 and try to separate, if nothing happens i am going for the FFA and then cycle of inddirect tech. I will do it from monday to thursday and have a rest in the weekends.

So i gave the phase a lot of thinking today and it hit me like a lighting, that thinking to much upon awakening is a waste of time, i mean thinking of what to do and how to do it makes your brain to aware and the phase is in your brain!!

I read about the phase on this site again and wondere why it should be so easy and i think that this is the answer : In essence, the phase is an unexplored state of mind where one is unable to control and feel his physical body. Instead, his space perception is filled with realistic phantom experiences. And when this happens then getting out of the body should be like a walk in the park    i hope that i have understood it correct

johnny from denmark

Michael Raduga wrote: ...

The deferred method has a sense only if you have more than 8-9 hours for sleep (6+2,,,3). If you have no time for it, do not do it. Use simple awakenings.

I bet there is a lot of other mistakes

Yeah, I tend to sleep from 10PM to about 7 or 8AM if not bothered by an alarm or something. I'd think that's plenty of time for the deferred method. Could it actually be too much sleep?

The only other mistake I can think I'm making is that after my alarm goes off, I don't really get out of bed and do something, I just start thinking about doing it. I haven't quite found that "sweet spot" of intent again, but I'm working on it. Beyond that, I can't think of anything else I'm doing wrong. Should I go to sleep before the alarm goes off thinking of the phase as well?

Sorry if this is frustrating you. Don't worry, it's no picnic for me either.

EDIT: Based off of the line saying that there's probably a lot of other mistakes, I will once again describe my normal routine.

I go to sleep with my alarm set about 6 hours into the future. After the alarm wakes me up, I will turn it off, lie awake for a few moments psyching myself up for the attempt, then attempt to fall back asleep, trying to reassure myself the entire time I'm falling asleep that "yes, this will work." One problem I have is finding just the right amount of "force" to be giving these thoughts. If I think of them too vividly, I keep myself awake, but it seems that I never think of it enough because I fall asleep and wake up later with no intention later. At this point, I'm too tired and I'm running on the instinct to keep sleeping. I usually wake up the next morning my normal time realizing that it didn't happen again.

Strangely enough, I don't feel discouraged most of the time. I have a few days every now and again that I'll be like "Why can't I do this again?" But most of the time I tell myself "I got this, I just have to remember how I did it the first time."

johnny wrote: And when this happens then getting out of the body should be like a walk in the park 

You are not right. Sometimes it is so. But in most cases you have to fight for it.

johnny wrote: So i gave the phase a lot of thinking today and it hit me like a lighting, that thinking to much upon awakening is a waste of time, i mean thinking of what to do and how to do it makes your brain to aware and the phase is in your brain!!

Of course

confuzzled wrote: Yeah, I tend to sleep from 10PM to about 7 or 8AM if not bothered by an alarm or something. I'd think that's plenty of time for the deferred method. Could it actually be too much sleep?

it is ok.

confuzzled wrote: The only other mistake I can think I'm making is that after my alarm goes off, I don't really get out of bed and do something, I just start thinking about doing it.

It is really big mistake. It must be 5-50 minutes (The more the better, if you will able to sleep again)