Lucid Dreaming and OBE Discussion Board

Hello, i am new to the forum. I have read all of the books and love them and find the techniques very effective. I have one question about forced falling asleep. I don't quite understand the concept exactly. Do you pretend your asleep, in other words do you shut off your mind for a few seconds? Also, sometimes i feel that my obes are kind of unrealistic and short. I usually try to rub my hands and touch objects but it doesn't always work. Is there a more effective method to increase overall awareness and realism? Thanks for any feedback.

I didn't understand forced falling asleep too, but I got the hang of it the first time I actually tried it.

I woke up and moved a little bit. Instead of giving up, I decided to try forced falling asleep. I closed my eyes and just let my mind wander for about 5 seconds, not concentrating on the attempt I am about to make. Than I tried one of seperation techniques very forcefully and aggresively. It ended up in images showing on my eyelids. I switched to "Observing image" and I am in.

And I find peering very effective. maybe, the most effective technique there is. Read about it in the guide book section of deepening and maintaining.

P.S. It's just my opinion expressed, after having some real experience. In other words, no match for Mr. Raduga's answer.

thanks for the advice. I should mention, i am blind, so i can't exactly do peering, but maybe something that involves smell, or maybe i should be more aggressive in my deepening. It is just frustrating when an experience isn't as real as it could be.

I may not be doing this right but, to me, the "forced falling asleep" is simply going back to sleep if I move when first awakening. I usually wake up a minute or two later since it is morning and time to get up. Then I remain still and try the brain squeeze, phantom wiggling, listening in, rotation. For me this method works best.

One method for improving clarity is the, "CLARITY NOW!" exclamation or "AWARENESS now!". I have also used a sweeping Qi Gong type motion to squeeze energy into my lower Dan Tien and that works too.

Read about FFA in this thread: http://obe4u.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=9
Do you have vision in the phase?

I don't think you should actually fall asleep as in losing consciousness for more than a second or two.

The best way to think of it is turning off internal dialogue and sitting in complete calm for several seconds.  It is very similar to a meditative state of conscious focus.  It is actually extremely difficult for most people to do for more than a few seconds.

Try right now to sit with your eyes closed thinking about nothing, no dialogue or daydreaming, and you'll see what I mean.

I was recently talking with a friend who is a trained practitioner of astral projection.  He was trained to achieve the phase almost exclusively through extended conscious focus followed by imagery.

Apparently this mental state can "trick" the body into thinking that you are really asleep. 

Personally I think it is key to achieving the phase.  I don't find it necessary immediately after waking without moving.  But if you move it should be done immediately (sometimes I have to move because of distracting pain).

I also do FFA between cycles or if I find that I am becoming to "awake" in my mind.  It puts me into a different mental state.

As far as clarity, I also have problems sometimes remembering things clearly.  I find this is most common when I fall asleep instead of ending by returning my body.  Also, I typically enter the phase through imagined movements "transporting" me somewhere else directly and I find I have to work a lot harder to deepen this way. 

When I separate from my physical body, feeling the sensation of leaving the body, I find I do not need to do nearly as much deepening to make it completely real.

Sometimes no matter what I can't achieve full realism.  These can actually be more fun because then I can do crazy things much more easily, like fly, walk through walls, dive down into the ground, and once engaging in an epic battle against aliens with a friend.

Hi. No, i can't see in the phaise. I was born blind, so i can't understand the concept of sight as it is. Everything for me is hearing and touch and smell. Also, i just got up after a few hours sleep. I now understand forced falling asleep fully. I woke and remembered not to move but, i had to because of a very bad itch on my back. I thought, i will try forced falling asleep because i feel to awake. I shut off my thoughts and just went blank for a few seconds. I then dipped in to another mental state that i had a very hard time focusing in. It was like i was thinking in my subconscious. Everything i thought about had a strange movie like quality. I had to think of the concept of an obe to even remember what to do. I sort of then just blacked out befor i could try to separate. My goal right now is making sure i remember everything i experience upon waking. Sometimes, i will have had an obe and not remember my state of awareness during the experience. Its like, i knew it was real in the obe, but like someone else said in this forum, it was like simply remembering a dream instead of a day to day event. I want it to feel more like a day to day experience instead of a dream. Hopefully with dedication, i can accomplish my goal. Any more feedback or advice would be great.

Hi arqmeister, I think the experience of 'vision' or sight in the phase is a very intriguing concept.

I wonder about what is doing the 'seeing' in the phase. I mean... if I am OBE I am not using physical eyes so what is doing the seeing? I must be translating 'energy' states into something recognizable to my brain.

Have you read the Carlos Castaneda works?
After one of Castaneda's inner journeys Don Juan asked Carlos what he had seen and Carlos replied, "you were there - didn't you see it?" Don Juan replied to the student, "I only see 'lines of intent'... I stopped 'seeing' they way you do a long time ago".

Yes, i have read his work. I don't quite believe everything that is in his books however, it is still interesting to read. Does anyone have a similar experience to mine, having memory issues during a subconscious focus?

Right, no way I believe half of what is in his books. But the stories are fantastic and some of the concepts kinda make you think....

Yes, I think it is common for folks to forget what they planned when entering the phase. Lots of people report that they can be very distracted, flighty, and even take on a bit of a different persona at times.

What does the "seeing" is our brains memory or experience with sight.  This gives it something to work with, even if we often see things in the phase we don't remember seeing and in fact have never seen (creativeness).

It would be interesting to know if you ever did have something like a visual sense in the phase.  Being that you have no experience with sight, I have no idea what that would be.

One of my goals in the phase is to develop a new touch like sensation where I can feel all of my surroundings.  I call it a gravitational sense because more or less I feel everything at once as it is connected to me through gravity.  I have this sense when I am flying in regular dreams and much less so in the phase.

Of course this sense is somewhat similar to touch (a sort of sonar touch) so it is different than developing a totally new sense I have no experience with.  But it is completely foreign and exhilarating.

A proper phase experience must be remembered as everyday event. If not, it is matter of deepening or time. For example, the clearest phase experiences happen during late mornings or during days.

Guys, your questions to arqmeister about vision looks stupid. He simply doesn't know what it is. Blinded people can see in the phase, because their brain know what it is. I even have teached some blinded people. But it is a very interesting issue to try to create vision in the phase for someone, who has never experienced vision. In theory, it looks possible. 

I think it's possible. There are some astounding NDE cases where people who have been blind since birth appear to have experienced vision. NDEs are a traumatic way of experiencing the Phase in my opinion.

Hope I'm not hijacking, but what exactly are your thoughts like when doing this properly? The closest I can come to no internal dialogue is "bouncing" the ambient sounds in the room around in my head, which is to say, I hear the sounds both with my ears and in my thoughts. I get the feeling that's not correct, so I'd like to do this right.

Basically, just tell your mind to shut completely up for at least 5 to 10 seconds. No internal diolauge