Lucid Dreaming and OBE Discussion Board

Hello..I.m new.
I.ve read the book now and cha 2 qutie a bit..

I.ve tried several times but I wake up too awake..wake up on turning my body or have difficulty going back to sleep.
In many cases I.m afraid that if I try while in this condition, it is a direct technique...but I try anyway because I didn.t officially wake up or open my eyes.  According to another post Michael says to go for it.

This morning I took a 1.15 hr nap after eating but before my routine for the day.  I woke up without moving and  groggy but my hand was bent  in a weird position.  I thought to try the technique... I did 4 or 5 cycles.  Looking..listening and some type of phantom motion.  It was more difficult to do wiggling and spinning.  Usually there is no difference when I practice wiggling or spinning  in the reality state or in a normal wakeup..by moving.
1.  Is this difficulty a sign of progress or nothing?

I can get the sounds quite easilly.  Maybe a little bit of vibes somtimes.  For phantom spinning and wiggling Michael says not to imagine moving but to move it like real.  I feel something  but it is only a phantom..again nothing different than if I  tried right now. (as practice not for direct technique)
2.  Is that how it should be.?

I feel myself go deeper as I do more cycles.
Sometimes I wonder how long I should try each of the single techniques in a cycle.  It varies in the book...but it seems to be l a few secs if it does not work but no more than two minutes if it does...(ten for practice)
3.  Is this correct?  and how often to practice?

any suggestions..
4. .should I use an auto shutoff alarm..?
I have one that can go off for 2 sec.s...so far I have been trying without.  Maybe it could help me  wake up without moving.


ps Michael.. thanks for the book and making it available for free.

HI bk!
[quote.ve tried several times but I wake up too awake..wake up on turning my body or have difficulty going back to sleep.[/quote] This also happened to me when it was all new. Keep persevering it will eventually happen!!

[quote]I.m afraid that if I try while in this condition, it is a direct technique...but I try anyway because I didn.t officially wake up or open my eyes.  According to another post Michael says to go for it./quote]
It isn't a direct technique, and if you haven't fully woken up, you can still induce. Even if you have moved a little you can induce. If you are fully awake it would be better to go back to sleep and try again apon awakening (in my own personal experience)

[quote]I can get the sounds quite easilly.  Maybe a little bit of vibes somtimes. /quote] If you are hearing sounds, that means you are very close if not IN the phase. You should just listen to them until they reach a peak then separate!!

[quote] I feel something  but it is only a phantom..again nothing different than if I  tried right now. (as practice not for direct technique)
2.  Is that how it should be.?/quote]
When it happens you will KNOW. You can't mistake it.

[quote]any suggestions..
4. .should I use an auto shutoff alarm..?
I have one that can go off for 2 sec.s...so far I have been trying without.  Maybe it could help me  wake up without moving./quote]
Don't use an alarm. You will end up relying on it. You can achieve waking without movement naturally. Believe me. It is hard the first few times for some ppl but eventually they get it. Just affirm to yourself before you go to sleep that you WILL wake without movement. You'll get it eventually.
If anything use an alarm for the deffered method to wake you after 6hrs sleep then turn it off and don't use it after that.

It's all written in SOBT. Follow that and you seriously CAN'T go wrong!

I don't know why my replays have been included in the quotes. I tried to modify it but it didn't work. Sorry.

Hello again...
I recently tried again after a small break.
I did the deferred method but woke up naturally one hour before it was time to defer...about 2.40 am so I layed in bed to get my rest but quickly my alarm went off...3.20 ish
I did some things and then went back to sleep at 4.00 for my indirect technique.
I awoke from a dream and did techniques and maybe some cycles.  My mind was sluggish...I fell asleep and woke realizing I was phantom wiggling!
My full arms were in motion...real phase arms!!! 
I tried to separate but my body twitched.  I tried some more but failed and woke up later...
Yup...you know it when you get it..

Question...If it is just imagined phantoms and phase limbs do not appear does that mean the technique is not working and one should switch within 5 seconds?

Luna.. Thanks for the previous reply.  At first I thought you just wrote a small paragraph.  I didn.t notice that you responded in great detail since the screen (my screen is 6") looks like most of your reply is all quoted material...It must have been some type of software bug.  I.m glad I checked again..

My full arms were in motion...real phase arms!!!
I tried to separate but my body twitched.  I tried some more but failed and woke up later...
Yup...you know it when you get it..

1.You were in the phase in this moment
2.Why you can't stand up in the phase? Maybe, because you cannot understand that you're in the phase. Maybe, you're not enough self-confident. Maybe, you cannot understand how to separate, that you should you do it by your own real perception.

If you're in the phase and can't move, of course it is very hard to induce the state from the very beggining.

You should analyse it. It's not about methods,

Self-confidence is very important.  Expectation also plays a major role.  I've been entering the phase quite regularly lately, more than what I would like to, because, due to extra working hours, I don't always have time to write my experiences neatly so I have a backlog of notes in my journal.

I thought I'd be inducing the phase state a lot less during this period but it seems that the opposite is happening.  Anyway, the apparent barrier upon separation from the body, as I've come to realise, will only defeat you if you believe that you can't go beyond that point.  As Michael said, it is not about methods.  There are only two types of attempts at separation: the precarious or unsure of yourself kind; and the confident, sure of yourself and with a little effort kind.

Confidence and expectation are powerful tools in the phase.  Last night, for example, I entered the phase and found myself in a maze of corridors with many doors and rooms.  For some reason I felt scared and paranoid as I felt that something was coming for me.  I entered a room and hid behind a glass door.  A shadow emerged outside and then I thought to myself: "why am I afraid when my body lies safely in bed and the reality around me is illusory?"

I imagined the shadow passing through the door and coming towards me and it did.  But this time, I was no longer afraid.  You see... I interpreted such event as a confirmation that I had actually made it happen from expectation.  I smiled at the shadow and watched it gradually fade as the realism of the phase world background remained.  This allowed me to explore the phase more intrepidly.

I imagine that it is the same thing when it comes to separation.  The barriers are illusory and from expectation.  Likewise, I suspect that when vision appears smudged upon a wake-initiated phase entry, it is due to the uncertainty of being in the phase and expecting to find sleeps in the eyes.

This happens to me sometimes and I usually realise I'm in the phase when I rub my eyes to find that the "dirty veil" vision persists.