Re: Experiment

LawPaw · Post by **LawPaw** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:55 am

I've mentioned that it seems like I frequently wake up from long periods of sleep in the phase with false sensations but aren't quite conditioned to seperate before I out of the phase.

So I've been thinking of a conditioning experiment that I'm going to try for a few weeks of attempts starting tomorrow morning.

It's a sort of pavlovian experiment where I choose a very distinct 4 second alarm noise. 4 seconds so that it is enough to wake me up but then will stop without me needing to physically move.

During the day I will practice laying in bed with the alarm set to go off every minute or so and when it does I will immediately roll out of bed as if seperating. I will do this repeatedly to condition myself to respond to that noise by rolling out of bed.

Then I will set that alarm for 6 hours after I go to sleep. This is the time I normally set a regular alarm to do the deferred method.

When it goes off I'm hoping it helps me remember to immidiately seperate. If I don't seperate then I will just get up for a few minutes then go back to sleep (my regular deferred method). I may try some indirect techniques right then if I feel very close to the phase.

I realize that this isn't the best technique for phase entrance, espeically for beginners, but I am curious.

Post by **Michael Raduga** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:08 am

Do you wanna use this alarm for awakenings while the deffered method? I strongly suggest to develop only autonomous methods for entering the phase. You see your mistakes so try to solve them more directly.

dreamsrock · Post by **dreamsrock** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:09 am

Can't wait to see your results!

LawPaw · Post by **LawPaw** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:06 am

Still haven't tried it. My weekend exploded, so I didn't even get to attempt to phase other than a foolishly attempted short nap.

Michael, yes the alarm for awakenings to begin the deferred method. I understand what you're saying about autonomous methods and completely agree from experience.

I'm not going to do any techniques after awakening, so I feel that it is fairly risk free. If it doesn't work I'll just get up for several minutes then go back to sleep to begin my real attempts.

JorgeLTE · Post by **JorgeLTE** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:54 am

I wouldn't suggest you to use the alarm clock, but if you still want to try it you should use FFA before any other technique because the alarm sound usually awakens the brain too much, which could be countered by the FFA technique followed by an aggressive attempt to separate.
Also, if you have a cellphone, you could set the timer before falling asleep into vibration mode and to sound after 6 hours.
It will vibrate only for 1 or 2 seconds. Plus, the vibration is less aggressive than the alarm.

Good look!!

Post by **Michael Raduga** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:30 pm

I cannot remember the source, but it was proved that tactile perception is much more agressive and disturbing than audial and visual, for example. However I doubt it too.

JorgeLTE · Post by **JorgeLTE** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:40 am

Sorry for the misunderstand. The vibration makes a noise in the table you are placing it. I never said you should sleep holding or having your cellphone in the bed.

LawPaw · Post by **LawPaw** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:07 am

I think you misunderstand the process.

I'm not trying any techniques when my alarm goes off. Either my conditioning makes me get up in the phase or else I awaken for several minutes then fall back asleep (deferred method).

The only reason I am using a 4 second alarm is because the sound of my alarm will disrupt me in the phase if it continues forever and will also lead my wife to begin shaking me.

The reason I have hopes for this is because I have had many experiences with the phase in my life just getting up in the morning then finding myself back in bed after beginning to start my day for a few seconds.

LawPaw · Post by **LawPaw** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:10 am

I should also explain that a major reason I have high hopes for this is because I had frequent short phase experiences when my son was a new born.

I was so accustomed to getting up quickly when I would hear him cry so as to not have it disturb my wife (the times it was my responsibility) that I often would jump out of my bed before I really even knew it.

Several times I would walk quickly to his room, look into his crib to pick him up, then realize that he still sounded like he was in the moniter/next room. Then I would find myself back in my bed very confused.

At the time I thought these were just super real dreams. These experiences are why when I found Michaels book I realized immediately that he knew what he was talking about.

arqmeister · Post by **arqmeister** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:50 pm

Is it possible to use an alarm that shuts off by itself to wake yourself up repeatedly every few minutes to enter the phaise? Kind of like the alarms from lucidology.com or saltcube.com? Has anyone tryed this?

JorgeLTE · Post by **JorgeLTE** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:01 pm

I tried that method from lucidology, it sucks and screws up your natural sleep.
As Mike said, don't use alarms.

LawPaw · Post by **LawPaw** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:50 am

Don't use alarms to enter the phase. I'm not promoting that. Only trying a conditioned response to an alarm that I am otherwise using to wake myself up for a deferred method.

The reason the alarm is a mistake is because there is no telling where in your sleep cycle it will go off and wake you up.

Where you naturally wake up is the sweet spot for entering the phase, so focus on using that spot.

JorgeLTE · Post by **JorgeLTE** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:04 am

Yeha LawPaw, I know you are not promoting that. You are just taking advantage of a moment when anyway if you fail you will wake up and then use autonomous methods and it's ok.

The problem is when people depends on alarms to achieve the phase, like Nicholas Newport suggests in Lucidology 101.

LawPaw · Post by **LawPaw** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:40 am

Newports methods are horrible.

I think he is well intentioned, but it's methods like his that make people think entering the phase is so difficult.

Then once they get it in their head that it is difficult it becomes impossible since so much of it is confidence.

Also, I figured we were on the same page. I just didn't want anyone else to think that I'm promoting other uses for alarms.