Re: Chemical supplements are prohibited

DreamMaster · Post by **DreamMaster** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:26 pm

In your post "Chemical supplements are prohibited" you ask:
"I know many natural practitioners that able to achive out-of-body experiences more than once per day. Do you know someone who can do the same with the supplements?"

Yes I do - many! Some of them are called "shamans" or medisin men, or magickans... and many other things.

You state: "If you unable to achive the phase (out-of-body experiences/lucid dreams) it means you cannot understand some details. So you cannot solve your mistakes by using the pills!!!"

How do you know?
How come many people have prooved you wrong on that claim?

I agree that supplements are not nesessery and that the first experiences should be done "sober", but my reasons for this standpoint is that IF you use supplements and successfully project then you will wonder "was it me or the drug?"

However, I also know that people are different and that my point of view is just my point of view. Censoring stuff (like this forum) and making discussions about it prohibited is against the right to freedom of speach.

Just because you and I don't advocate chemical supplements doesn't mean that everybody should think and do the same as us!

This is starting to look more and more like a sect!
"Follow the leader, or else!"

I wouldn't be surprized it I was banned from this forum due to the fact that I don't agree with many of Michaels claims and theoris AND express myself about it.

johnny · Post by **johnny** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:33 pm

I think the point michael is making when he says no chemical supplements should be used, is that the drugs will control your mind, and if you want to have succes YOU should control your mind not the drugs.

Anyone who thinks that they control the drugs while influencede by them are in denial.

it is your mind, use it or lose it!!!

DreamMaster · Post by **DreamMaster** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:07 pm

What I point out is the "prohibited" part... the censoring...

If people want to fool them selfs with drugs, who are we to deny them that experience?
Freedom of speech is freedom of speech, and it is much better to talk about this in the open than to pretend it's not there by making it prohibited...

There's no such thing as objective reality - we all create our own and one reality is not more real/right than another... for some people drugs IS the only way to experience this phenomena, I'm sure you know plenty of people who are everything but spiritual, until they have an experience on a drug...

I agree that sober is the only way to go - for me and more like me, but not everybody.
Those who have another view should also be able to talk about it and share experiences.
There are many forums for that already, but I think a site that claims it is serious and scientific site like this should include all topics, not just the "morally right"

Post by **Summerlander** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:05 pm

DreamMaster,

If you don't feel free in this Forum than why are you here?

Luna · Post by **Luna** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:13 pm

What he's saying is using his method, he'd much rather you use it with out a chemical or herb crutch! We can all achieve the Phase naturally and that is what he's trying to show us we can all achieve! Gosh, how hard is it for you to understand?
Don't come on here and start challenging Michael's experiences and advice, saying he's wrong. That's only according to YOU!

I just think you've seen something on here that has rubbed you up the wrong way and now you can't see anything but negativity.

This is starting to look more and more like a sect!
"Follow the leader, or else!"

Where the heck did you get that from?? I don't see anything from Michael like that on this forum.

You obviously haven't been reading properly!

If you don't like this forum....why waste your time an energy posting here? Go use it obtaining "real AP" somewhere else.

Post by **Summerlander** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:18 pm

Exactly and well said. With drugs I can guarantee you that you will not have any control and the experiences will not have the quality that you get when you enter the Phase naturally.

I know this because a few years ago I was experimenting with drugs. Since familiarising myself with the Phase, I've never looked back. The Phase is better than any high and what's more...it is harmless and free!

DreamMaster · Post by **DreamMaster** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:11 am

Summerlander wrote: Exactly and well said. With drugs I can guarantee you that you will not have any control and the experiences will not have the quality that you get when you enter the Phase naturally.

I couldn't agree more!

DreamMaster · Post by **DreamMaster** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:23 am

Luna wrote: What he's saying is using his method, he'd much rather you use it with out a chemical or herb crutch! We can all achieve the Phase naturally and that is what he's trying to show us we can all achieve! Gosh, how hard is it for you to understand?

READ what I type instead of interprenting it
You obviously don't get my poits.

Don't come on here and start challenging Michael's experiences and advice, saying he's wrong. That's only according to YOU!

Sure I do, and I don't need your permission
No, it's NOT just according to me. I question HIM, not you or any other, cause only he knows what he means and thinks!

I challenge everything, it's foolish to just believe what people say or claim - if you've read his books you'll see that he encurrage you to DON'T believe in what he writes, but find out from your own experience.

I just think you've seen something on here that has rubbed you up the wrong way and now you can't see anything but negativity.

All you see is you!
I ask him questions to get answers that I wonder about. If you can't see that then YOU have a problem, not me....

This is starting to look more and more like a sect!
"Follow the leader, or else!"
Where the heck did you get that from?? I don't see anything from Michael like that on this forum.

Keep reading then... You'll see it when you know how manipulation works....

You obviously haven't been reading properly!

Well, I'd say the same to you, sunshine

If you don't like this forum....why waste your time an energy posting here? Go use it obtaining "real AP" somewhere else.

I just got here and want to hear Michaels views before I draw my conclusions. From his supporters replies it is obvious that everyone who doesn't follow the leader is asked to leave - that say much about this community.
It totaly lacks objectivity and free thinking!

DreamMaster · Post by **DreamMaster** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:25 am

Summerlander wrote: DreamMaster,

If you don't feel free in this Forum than why are you here?

Because I just got here. Why are you so eager to get rid of people who have different experiences and world views than you?

Luna · Post by **Luna** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:16 am

I challenge everything, it's foolish to just believe what people say or claim - if you've read his books you'll see that he encurrage you to DON'T believe in what he writes, but find out from your own experience.

In this case why bother questioning him? Or anyone else for that matter. He already said find out from your own experience and it seems as though you have so why come in here and say that what he or anyone else has concluded is incorrect? Like I said...that is only according to you.

Take from ANYTHING only what 'speaks' to you and disregard the rest. No need to challenge and create drama.

I'm not commenting anymore cause this will just go round, and round and I'm not interested in pointing fingers or the I'm smarter than you trip. Enjoy your day.

NOVA · Post by **NOVA** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:36 am

Don't be dumb DreamMaster.

Michael is offering very valuable assistance that works.

We are not here to criticize anyone.

I am here because I have tried other styles and sites, which did not work for me.

Michael is no nonsense, rubber on the road, no fluff and stuff.

If you don't like it go somewhere else as we have done.

Which has brought us here.

DreamMaster · Post by **DreamMaster** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:55 am

NOVA wrote: Don't be dumb DreamMaster.

Michael is offering very valuable assistance that works.

We are not here to criticize anyone.

I am here because I have tried other styles and sites, which did not work for me.

Michael is no nonsense, rubber on the road, no fluff and stuff.

If you don't like it go somewhere else as we have done.

Which has brought us here.

Dear Nova,
Michael has a fresh approach to the way to perform the techniques which is wonderful and very effective - I do NOT question those. What I question is his theory because it does not match my experiences.

I find censorship and prohibition negative, as we all should know; that kind of strategy often has the opposite effect (just take a look at the police statistics in your country), and can be more dangerous than giving people true and realistic info about herbs and drugs.

In my experience it is easier to talk people away from using drugs or herbs by talking with them, find out why they think they need it, and then show them how to do it without. I think Michael has a great method of experiencing this fast and eazy, which is why I find this prohibition counter productive.

Tell me, why do you and others say "go somewhere else" when I ask critical questions about Michaels theory?

Pragmatic, pragmatic, pragmatic... The word "pragmatic" is the opposite as "dogmatic" - yet I got to admit that you and those who criticizes my questions seem to be just that - dogmatic...

Post by **Michael Raduga** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:04 pm

Yes I do - many! Some of them are called "shamans" or medisin men, or magickans... and many other things.

Yes, they are addicted to drugs. And they aren't respected by me because this. If you wanna be the same, do it, but don't discuss it here, please. It's just our rule. If you're here, you have to accept this.

I'm even in shock someone can promote all this stuff

This topic has no future while it has connection to such things. Society will never accept it this way. So we must be separated from all chemicals and declare this position first.

Post by **Summerlander** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:40 pm

DreamMaster wrote:
Summerlander wrote: DreamMaster,

If you don't feel free in this Forum than why are you here?

Because I just got here. Why are you so eager to get rid of people who have different experiences and world views than you?

Why am I so eager to get rid of people? What?? Where did you read that in any of my posts? I just asked you a question! Why are you here if you don't feel free? All of a sudden I want to get rid of you? You see how you interpret things and read too much into something? Can you see how you are prone to assumptions?

It's very simple, DreamMaster, you will not change the way this site runs. The people who are here choose to be here because they agree with the consensus, and the consensus comes from observable facts. Nobody here is following leaders, people have their own ideas and beliefs. Those who stay here and support Michael Raduga's views are doing it by their own volition - they do not have a gun against their heads. We simply agree with him and help him to promote the facts apart from helping each other out.

NOVA · Post by **NOVA** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:09 pm

Dear Dreamaster

Is it really your place to criticize Michael?
Michael created this site from his desire to freely help others realise their goals of OBE.

Why come into to His site and do this? I don't understand your motive.
There are other ways to share your thoughts and views.
We all here, have slightly different views to each other, but no one is slamming anyone else.
Your attitude really is creating and unpleasant atmosphere.

Stop being silly.

Drugs...well Michael's point is that if we achieve OBE naturally it will be more readily accepted by "Conventional thinkers" if drugs are involved the door will shut. "Conventional thinkers" will not want to take drugs to achieve OBE but they may want to try OBE naturally.

It's just Michael's choice is all, not to use drugs. I don't want the crutch of a drug to achieve OBE either.
Messes up your head.

Hey we are the hippies of OBE but we can do it naturally.

It's FREE!

Doesn't cost a cent.

I don't want to spend $2,000. on a plane ride to Sth America and travel up pirhana infested river for 2 hours in canoe, deep into the Amazon with four other strangers from 3 different countries. To land in a tiny village in the middle of the who knows where, swatting off dinosaur sized mosquitoes and beating off massive ants.
To then drink some foul tasting herbs after which I will vomit my guts up into a bucket probably more than once. Then proceed into the depths of hell to meet my demons. Scaring the living daylights out of myself. Maybe then do it again the following night. Only to finally find out none of it is real. It was all in my head anyway.

Actually I had considered doing this...

But then I found this site aaahh!!!
Now I don't have to.
I Like my bed.

dreamsrock · Post by **dreamsrock** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:28 am

I don't want to spend $2,000. on a plane ride to Sth America and travel up pirhana infested river for 2 hours in canoe, deep into the Amazon with four other strangers from 3 different countries. To land in a tiny village in the middle of the who knows where, swatting off dinosaur sized mosquitoes and beating off massive ants.
To then drink some foul tasting herbs after which I will vomit my guts up into a bucket probably more than once. Then proceed into the depths of hell to meet my demons. Scaring the living daylights out of myself. Maybe then do it again the following night. Only to finally find out none of it is real. It was all in my head anyway.

Actually I had considered doing this...

But then I found this site aaahh!!!
Now I don't have to.
I Like my bed.

Holy Crap Nova, you CRACK ME UP!!!!

NOVA · Post by **NOVA** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:05 am

Yeah Luna thinks I'm "crack"ers too!

Luna · Post by **Luna** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:07 am

I don't want to spend $2,000. on a plane ride to Sth America and travel up pirhana infested river for 2 hours in canoe, deep into the Amazon with four other strangers from 3 different countries. To land in a tiny village in the middle of the who knows where, swatting off dinosaur sized mosquitoes and beating off massive ants.
To then drink some foul tasting herbs after which I will vomit my guts up into a bucket probably more than once. Then proceed into the depths of hell to meet my demons. Scaring the living daylights out of myself. Maybe then do it again the following night. Only to finally find out none of it is real. It was all in my head anyway.

Actually I had considered doing this...

But then I found this site aaahh!!!
Now I don't have to.
I Like my bed.

HYSTERICAL! Hahahaha the fact that you considered this def makes you 'crack'ers!!! LOL!