Re: knowing you slept?

SuperGamer54321 · Post by **SuperGamer54321** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:13 pm

Hey guys can you help me out every time i take a nap in the afternoon and only some times in the night, i dont know i was asleep like i wake up thinking i could not even sleep and then find out that i was a sleep for a while. Is there something i can do to know i was asleep so i can atleast know upon awaking that i was asleep, and do the techniques/separate.

Luna · Post by **Luna** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:36 pm

Intention. Maybe as you are lying there before sleep, repeat to yourself (therfore embed it into your subconcious) That you are going to roll out upon awakening.

SuperGamer54321 · Post by **SuperGamer54321** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:38 pm

Alright thx Luna i will definitely try your techniques tonight.

Luna · Post by **Luna** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:49 pm

repeat that you are not going to move apon awakening and then roll out

SuperGamer54321 · Post by **SuperGamer54321** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:51 pm

Alright i will let you know how it works out when i get my first phase nd seriously thx for all the help!

SuperGamer54321 · Post by **SuperGamer54321** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:51 am

Luna thank you so much!!!

your technique of saying "repeat that you are not going to move apon awakening and then roll out" before sleep worked really well, This morning i woke up and did not move and never opened my eyes and got straight to work. I still swallowed after cuz i forgot but i still kept trying nd it felt empty but i cld not go back to sleep.

Do you have to wake up at like 3 am for the techniques to work?

Post by **Michael Raduga** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:12 pm

I think you just need a little bit more practice.
Don't make attempts everyday. 2-3 days per week is enough (preferably only during weekends)

SuperGamer54321 · Post by **SuperGamer54321** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:15 pm

thank you MR.Raduga schools starting tomo anyway thats wat im gonna do

Luna · Post by **Luna** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:55 pm

Yay! That's cool, your on your way. One step closer!! I can't take credit for that technique though

No you don't have to wake at 3 am or any specific time. There is a method called the deferred method though where u wake after 6 hrs sleep do something like read for a short period of time then go back to sleep and induce apon awakening. Some people prefer that but I prefer to attempt on awakenings after a full night sleep. You'll have to try things until you find something that works for you.

Good idea to follow Michael's advice to take breaks and practice

Have you read all of or any of SOBT?

SuperGamer54321 · Post by **SuperGamer54321** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:13 pm

I read the whole book twice and watched all the youtube vidz also i watch the indirect one before i go to sleep.

By the way does the phase really feel that realistic, because i know in a lucid dream you dont feel anything and well its nowhere close to a phase exp..

But im suspicious because mr. Raduga includes lucid dreaming as part of the word phase..

Luna · Post by **Luna** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:01 pm

Yes the phase feels 100% real. To the point where the only difference is what your seeing. ie things you wouldn't see whilst 'awake' does that make sense?

because i know in a lucid dream you dont feel anything and well its nowhere close to a phase exp..

how did you come to that conclusion?
I've only become lucid in a dream on two occasions and it was only for a few seconds each time but what I experienced was real. The same feeling as if I was awake.

I understand why he includes them together in the word phase cause they all feel the same. The only difference is the entry or level of awareness. In my opinion. We are kinda off topic here $:-\$

ElRaay · Post by **ElRaay** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:17 am

Lucid dreams can feel very realistic if you do deepening techniques. I am an actual good lucid dreamer compared to phaser and my lucid dreams are my bread and butter for phase experince. I think if you deepen enough you will have greater sensations then in sleep. Alot of times the lucid dream doesnt fully feel as realistic and thats only due to me being a slacker when it comes to maintaning. I just get so excited lol.
I reccomend you make a dream journel, instead of practicing to seperate evryday, choose 2-3 days to practice seperating but in between those days keep a good journal log. Its intresting when i can write each dream and remember in my mind as if it was a movie or a past event that was just recent. Once i heard a rift in a dream and tried to transpose that riff to my guitar. But yes deepening can make a lucid dream feel very realistic.

SuperGamer54321 · Post by **SuperGamer54321** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:44 am

Ive had lucid dreams before, it means becoming aware that you are dreaming right? But they felt just as real as a normal dream?

(even though i cld do wat ever i wanted it felt as real as a normal dream: no senses.

Post by **Summerlander** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:05 pm

SuperGamer54321:

Lucid dreams can feel as real, if not far more real on certain occasions, than waking life if one performs deepening techniques. You obviously have senses because you can usually see and hear what is going on in the dream. The practitioner can intensify the experience (proven) using sensory-amplification. Phasers can focus on the other senses, too, and this can also aid prolongation of the state. Different levels of phase depth often lead novices to become convinced that they are separate worlds or dimensions when in fact the intensity and controllability is dependent on deepening and managing the phase. Beware of belief-traps when experiencing the phase because in there, what you think is, will be, and, the more you think about it, the more you add fuel to the fire. Before you know it, your subconscious mind will start to create plots whereby apparently sentient beings tell you that you are in plane of existence so and so and blah blah blah - belief-centric fantasies manifest realistically.

I have entered the phase before, during and after sleep and I can assure you it is all the same. Dream-initiated lucidity is a phase entry via dream consciousness. The minute you become lucid you have entered the phase. You have, on this occasion, skipped a perceived separation from the body and the bedroom replica created from expectation.

Brain activity on EEG scans show that the lucid state is a hybrid one between waking and dreaming. Lucid means that you know you are dreaming as you feel that you are not lying in bed, but rather, elsewhere.

The phase is OOBEs and lucid dreams. They are all the same. The phase state can be entered before (Wake-initiated Lucid Dream or WILD - which may or may not include a separation into an emulated replica of the bedroom), during (Dream-initiated Lucid Dream or DILD - where you become lucid during a dream), and after sleep (WILD which may also include a perceived separation from the body). This view is not "suspicious". It is pragmatic.

Take a look at this link originally posted by Anton:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... figure/F4/

Here another thing for you to check out which I posted on the following link:

Waking State:

Also known as wakefulness. In this state, people perceive the physical realm. An individual who is awake is conscious, self-aware, and there is realism of perception. The environment is stable and there is no required effort to enter this state. The perceived world seems to follow set rules, and, only on a quantum level, do things appear to be less logical and more uncertain.

Dream State:

This entails non-lucid dreams and falling asleep is all that is needed to enter this state. Self-awareness is absent and the unconscious mind often rules over the conscious one. The dreamer is immersed in plots and often detached from waking life memories. The experience can be vivid or vague, and, despite the instability, the illogical is accepted as being logical and true. Certain techniques can be employed to boost dream recall.

Phase State:

This entails out-of-body experiences (OOBEs or OBEs) and lucid dreams. Both are one and the same as a practitioner of this state has the distinct sensation of being elsewhere other than the physical body. This elusive state can be entered before, during, and after sleep. Effort is required in order to enter the phase voluntarily, although, some experiences are induced involuntarily. The practitioner is conscious and self-aware in what appears to be a reality of a mental nature which often emulates the waking state experience. One perceives a realistic phantom reality that can surpass the quality of the waking world, and, although phase environments can appear stable, they can also transmute. It is possible to slip into the dream state from here and vice versa.

http://obe4u.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=9

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:53 pm

SuperGamer54321 wrote: Ive had lucid dreams before, it means becoming aware that you are dreaming right? But they felt just as real as a normal dream? (even though i cld do wat ever i wanted it felt as real as a normal dream: no senses.

I usually experience my non-physical experiences (my phase experiences), be it a dream, lucid dream, astral projection, whatever... in the same manner, and clarity as my physical waking life experiences.

To me, there's very little difference in "how" I experience it.

SuperGamer54321 · Post by **SuperGamer54321** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:22 pm

Thx guys.. But lucid dreams are just not my thing im gonna stick to obe

wiii · Post by **wiii** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:07 pm

SuperGamer54321 wrote: Thx guys.. But lucid dreams are just not my thing im gonna stick to obe

It's the same thing,the only difference its the level of lucidity/awareness!!

Luna · Post by **Luna** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:39 pm

I reccomend you make a dream journel, instead of practicing to seperate evryday, choose 2-3 days to practice seperating but in between those days keep a good journal log.

I agree!! That's how I started off aswell.

Its intresting when i can write each dream and remember in my mind as if it was a movie or a past event that was just recent.

I LOVE this! I look back through my phone (I write them in my phone) from past dreams and even if I haven't written all the small details, it replays in full, details and sometimes more in my head. Amazing!!

Thx guys.. But lucid dreams are just not my thing im gonna stick to obe

You're probably gonna experience them whether you like it or not. It seems they come hand in hand. Why limit yourself anyway?

Whatever happens your in for a ride that's for sure!!

SuperGamer54321 · Post by **SuperGamer54321** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:02 pm

Alright dre journal it izz

... But im still gonna practice obe

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:56 pm

wiii wrote:It's the same thing,the only difference its the level of lucidity/awareness!!

^ This...

There really is very little difference between Lucid Dreams and Astral Projections beyond perspective.
I actually prefer to call them something slightly different. I call any experience that doesn't happen in this physical reality a "non-physical experience of varying level of awareness".

I have a "non-physical dream awareness experience."
I have a "non-physical lucid awareness experience."
And I have a "non-physical astral awareness experience."
To use Michael's terms, they're all experiences that happen in what he calls "The Phase".

wiii · Post by **wiii** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:55 am

Ryan wrote:
wiii wrote:It's the same thing,the only difference its the level of lucidity/awareness!!
^ This...

There really is very little difference between Lucid Dreams and Astral Projections beyond perspective.
I actually prefer to call them something slightly different. I call any experience that doesn't happen in this physical reality a "non-physical experience of varying level of awareness".

I have a "non-physical dream awareness experience."
I have a "non-physical lucid awareness experience."
And I have a "non-physical astral awareness experience."
To use Michael's terms, they're all experiences that happen in what he calls "The Phase".

Yeah,I agree!
All these are non-physical experiences!
The non-physcal experience is there wether we want it or not,during sleep,practicing ''the phase'' or ''Astral Projection'' or anything else by this nature,is just becoming aware of that non-physical experience,and exploring it!
And if we want to explore more of it,we need to practice as much as we can,for getting used with the feelings and situations of this kind!
Any one can call it anyhow they want,after all we that practice these things,we are all heading in one direction,based on personal beliefs,and I would say that we all aspire to the highest level of lucidity/awareness and this I just assume will take us to the point where we truly will know what we really feel and think!

wiii

Post by **Summerlander** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:33 am

Here's the difference between waking, dream and phase states:

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:19 pm

I'd actually go and check off the "realism of perception" under the dream category as well.
At least as my experience is concerned, my dreams are as "real feeling" as my waking life. If that's what's meant by that row.

Post by **Michael Raduga** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:02 pm

SuperGamer54321 wrote: I read the whole book twice

SuperGamer54321 wrote: Thx guys.. But lucid dreams are just not my thing im gonna stick to obe

If you didn't mean separation experience (i.e. only REAL difference between classic OBE and LD), you better reread the book for the third time

Post by **Summerlander** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:02 pm

Ryan wrote: I'd actually go and check off the "realism of perception" under the dream category as well.
At least as my experience is concerned, my dreams are as "real feeling" as my waking life. If that's what's meant by that row.

I know what you mean, Ryan. But I guess even in vivid dreams or REM sleep your perception of the surrounding environment is still not as acute as in the waking state. For example, you may not feel the proper sensation of the ground that you walk on, whereas, as soon as you become lucid, by paying attention to the surroundings, you will clearly feel and see its details, even the temperature of the floor surface may be experienced as everything may be amplified to the point of even exceeding waking perception.

Vivid dreams can most certainly leave an impression on us (especially visually - in my case) but, in retrospect, you will see that perception is nowhere near in emulating waking life. In one instance, you may have a lot of vision but not enough tactility or vestibular sensation. In this way, vivid dreams lack realism (let alone the vague ones).

Typically, in waking life and in the phase, the realism is apparent and may be the result of having full consciousness/self-awareness.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:20 pm

Personally, "realism" is simply perception.

The realism of my waking life can wax and wane relating entirely to my perception in the same manner which you include it does in the phase.

This is why false awakenings happen in the first place.
I was biking to work the other morning and I had to stop and double check myself to make sure I was awake. Cause I had a few instances where I just wasn't sure. LoL Scary proposition. hehe

SuperGamer54321 · Post by **SuperGamer54321** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:21 pm

so i probably was not lucid just able to do what ever i want in the dream $:-\$ with the only sense, to see.

Post by **Summerlander** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:17 pm

False awakenings is when you have entered the phase without knowing. Self-awareness and realism of perception are there...only you mistake it for the waking world.

Realism is not perception as perception can be unrealistic (especially within the context discussed). And, as you eloquently mentioned, perception of reality can indeed be weak. If you are hallucinating while awake, for example, then obviously perception is distorted and unrealistic...

But Ryan, generally speaking, the diagram I posted, which is from SOBT is 100% spot on...

Personally!

SuperGamer54321 wrote: so i probably was not lucid just able to do what ever i want in the dream $:-\$ with the only sense, to see.

What?! LOL!

My friend, if you knew that you were dreaming, then you were lucid.

SOBT has it all. Even the phase can be dim in appearance (weak phase), but if one performs the necessary techniques, it will deepen and become hyper-realistic.

Just because you are lucid doesn't mean the environment is vivid to start with and, vice versa...just because the environment is vivid, it doesn't mean that you are lucid.

Capisce?

Luna · Post by **Luna** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:55 pm

Read the book again! It seems you aren't reading correctly

It's all good. You'll understand when it all happens for you. Only time will tell

Post by **Summerlander** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:02 am

And there is a new version coming out. It'll be even richer and more interesting!